US Pilots Labor Discussion 9/23- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[luvn737s]

"LOW PAY TILL THE LAST DAY!!"

 

[Run Like Hell]

"LOW PAY TILL THE LAST DAY!!"

Yes, it certainly makes you question the intellegence of the "brain trust" running usapa

 

[PullUp]

Unfortunately USAPA isnt interested in getting a contract. they are more interested in blaming everyone else for their lack of anything. Read the latest update. Complaining about how everyone else has it better than they do. Hello!!! They do. You can only blame yourselves. Geniuses.

USAPA = Our costs are higher and pay is lower. Enjoy.

Fortunately, USAPA is not interested in getting just ANY contract. They are more interested in getting a quality contract that compensates the pilots at an industry standard level. Son, it takes two to tango, and I don't see the corporate geniuses desiring a contract anytime soon. Despite what Mr. Parker says ("because it's the right thing to do"), the company is saving millions with status quo and loving every minute. I believe your ire toward the union (the group of pilot individuals most directly affected by the status of the contract) is misplaced. Mr. "it's the right thing to do" Parker could step up the pace of negotiations if he wanted to, but apparently that is not the case.

USAPA = Our money is 100% ours, not just 20% like before.

 

[aquagreen73s]

I believe your ire toward the union (the group of pilot individuals most directly affected by the status of the contract) is misplaced. Mr. "it's the right thing to do" Parker could step up the pace of negotiations if he wanted to, but apparently that is not the case.

Because his lawyers have made it clear to him that the company will get sued and probably lose for not using the arbitrated seniority list. Unlike what everyone on the East like to believe, namely Phoenix, this isn't an "internal union matter." There's this document that has controlled everything as between East, West and the company, and that document is called the Transition Agreement. That contract is between the pilots of each airline, ALPA and the company. Replace ALPA with USAPA. So the gang running USAPA are trying to do something that the company obviously won't do. That's why we're back in federal court.

DOH is getting pretty darned expensive. The health insurance premium boost for the East is double what we've needed on the West to fund our lawyers, and we've only had to do it once. For you, who know what '12 will bring, or '13.

 

[cleardirect]

Fortunately, USAPA is not interested in getting just ANY contract. They are more interested in getting a quality contract that compensates the pilots at an industry standard level. Son, it takes two to tango, and I don't see the corporate geniuses desiring a contract anytime soon. Despite what Mr. Parker says ("because it's the right thing to do"), the company is saving millions with status quo and loving every minute. I believe your ire toward the union (the group of pilot individuals most directly affected by the status of the contract) is misplaced. Mr. "it's the right thing to do" Parker could step up the pace of negotiations if he wanted to, but apparently that is not the case.

USAPA = Our money is 100% ours, not just 20% like before.

No management NEVER wants to step up the pace or pay what the pilots want. It is the unions job to create that leverage and unity to convince the company to get to a contract.

Simply blaming management that it is their fault. Weak argument. usapa is at the table right. What have they done in 2.5 years? Where will we be 2.5 years from now? What is usapa (the east) going to do differently to get a contract other than whine it is someone else's fault?

You guys thought that majority ruled and you could steamroll the west and get what you want. Have you guys figured out that leaving 1/3 of the group behind is not working? Who will you blame when the NMB parks us for 6 months or a year? That is what the company wants so if we get parked it is a punishment to the union. Totaly the unions fault. Kind of blows the theory of being released any time soon.

It will be the NMB that determines which side is not cooperating to get a contract. I can hear it now. The NMB is in the pocket of the west. Senile, paid off, biased, ect.

 

[N924PS]

And 80% of the money is going to $eeham....

 

[Ames]

Just asking, because I don't know anybody that picked it first. You didn't really answer, did you?

I did. Location and culture. Would not even consider US Airways as it was the worst of the worst. Didn't like NWA bases, UA culture, AA culture, CO was a mess before Bethune. Fedex and UPS? Can't do nights. Was extremely happy at AWA until the acquisition.

 

[Ames]

Fortunately, USAPA is not interested in getting just ANY contract. They are more interested in getting a quality contract that compensates the pilots at an industry standard level.

USAPA = Our money is 100% ours, not just 20% like before.

That's not true. Usapa is only interested in getting DOH at any and all costs.

PS: Your money is 100% Sleazham's, not just 20% like before.

 

[luvn737s]

Fortunately, USAPA is not interested in getting just ANY contract.

I understand why you would like to see your faith in USAPA to be validated, but you've got to look at this rationally.

USAPA likes to pretend it can bully the company with it's public rhetoric. The company sees through it and knows that it has insufficient support to accomplish any threat it's leaders might dream up. And until it confronts the integration issue head-on with a strategy that will work (not wasting time in appeals courts, etc.) the company can continue to treat USAPA like the caricature they have allowed themselves to become.

In short, USAPA will have no choice on what type of contract it produces until it chooses to stop fighting with 1/3 of it's membership.

 

[A320 Driver]

I understand why you would like to see your faith in USAPA to be validated, but you've got to look at this rationally.

USAPA likes to pretend it can bully the company with it's public rhetoric. The company sees through it and knows that it has insufficient support to accomplish any threat it's leaders might dream up. And until it confronts the integration issue head-on with a strategy that will work (not wasting time in appeals courts, etc.) the company can continue to treat USAPA like the caricature they have allowed themselves to become.

In short, USAPA will have no choice on what type of contract it produces until it chooses to stop fighting with 1/3 of it's membership.

So, if USAPA and all East pilots will just embrace the Nic, the company will also roll over and sign on to a contract that makes us all happy???

Get real. If both sides don't find the middle ground, we will stay in this mess for the rest of our careers. The Nic didn't start the meltdown. It was the last straw. Run from that if you will, but your position is as extreme to an East pilot as straight DOH is to you. THAT will NOT change.

Driver B)

 

[Benz M-100]

....but your position is as extreme to an East pilot as straight DOH is to you. THAT will NOT change.

Driver B)

Perfectly stated A320....thank you.

 

[Run Like Hell]

So, if USAPA and all East pilots will just embrace the Nic, the company will also roll over and sign on to a contract that makes us all happy???

Get real. If both sides don't find the middle ground, we will stay in this mess for the rest of our careers. The Nic didn't start the meltdown. It was the last straw. Run from that if you will, but your position is as extreme to an East pilot as straight DOH is to you. THAT will NOT change.

Driver B)

So what's a middle ground for you? ah let me guess DOH with C/R as proposed by usapa. FORGET IT!

Again you fail to move off YOUR extreme position.


The NIC is a compromise, in fact it's worse than a compromise for the west, The west loses an average of 3% relative senority.

But compared to what the east wanted to impose on us, it's doable.

 

[Metroyet]

Get real. If both sides don't find the middle ground, we will stay in this mess for the rest of our careers.

Driver B)

Well I hope you're close to retirement then because there IS no middle ground. Under the "sage" advice of one Lee $e$ham, a band of hardliners attempted to steal the rights and autonomous representation of the minority. They did so be regurgitating $e$hams lies to the desperate and pleading for votes. The East made their bed and now they can lay in it for the rest of their careers...LOA93, double medical ins. costs, vacation and sick time that make Mesa look like Pan Am in it's prime...on and on. The west doesn't NEED a new contract...ask that question of your food stampers and senior captains. Of course if USAPA leadership actually cared what the member ship thought, they'd employ a survey company...just like real airline unions do. My feeling is that USAPA leadership is far more afraid of what they would find out if they actually allowed the membership to voice an opinion through a neutral 3rd party, (we know how the East loathes neutral 3rd parties and all)

 

[biggie smalls]

So, if USAPA and all East pilots will just embrace the Nic, the company will also roll over and sign on to a contract that makes us all happy???

Get real. If both sides don't find the middle ground, we will stay in this mess for the rest of our careers. The Nic didn't start the meltdown. It was the last straw. Run from that if you will, but your position is as extreme to an East pilot as straight DOH is to you. THAT will NOT change.

Driver B)

Driver,

You are absoluty correct, It was the last straw,and if we all don't meet in the middle and resolved this it will be the end for all of us. Just look at all the mergers.What's next JB and AA ? who knows, but if that happens USAirways is done. We all have to get it together like yesterday guys. Let's not kill ourselves, kill the enemy..........

Biggie smalls

 

[BoeingBoy]

Unfortunately, after 4-1/2 years of the East trying to impose it's will on the West, it's now in the hands of the courts and that's where it will be decided. USAPA made sure that there would be no "we" to reach agreement on a middle ground. It's unfortunate for those willing to compromise in order to reach some agreement, but that train left the station a long time ago.

Jim