US Pilots Labor Discussion 9/23- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[Ames]

Or is the east so selfish you would rather ruin everyone one around you because you are unhappy.

After enduring their behavior of the past 5 years do you even have to ask?

 

[pjirish317]

Can I assume your speaking for the entire west ? Because as far as the East is concerned we would rather sink the ship than sail under the nic. The top

half of the East list won't make enough to make giving in worth it and the bottom half will be so screwed that they might as well start something else. As

far as I'm concerned pull the plug and sink this floating garbage skow.

This kind of statement turns my stomach. Do you people actually want EVERYBODY that works for Usairways to lose their job. A job that has had it's up's and down's for sure, but by all accounts so far, there might be light at the end of the tunnel (for most of us here at least). And now you say that the entire "East" faction wants to sink the ship? Why don't you just quit and let everybody else that wants to work here stay here. That kind of attitude is why you guys are where you are. The entire pilot group at this point is a cancer to this company and needs to be cured, both sides.

 

[cleardirect]

We furlough a 1000 pilots, I don't think any of us will be flying anything for LCC. That's 80+ hulls according to my figures.

Driver B)

Really!!! At the time of the merger the east had 1700 on furlough. When the west points out that US Air was going to liquidate the answer is US Air was so important to the east coast it would never happen.

So I am confused. Is Us Air to big to fail or would 1000 west pilots furlughed finally finish USA?

 

[767jetz]

As far as I'm concerned pull the plug and sink this floating garbage skow.

Now that's a great idea.

Sure would help the rest of the industry, especially Southwest/AirTran.

Actually I seriously doubt that's going to happen. As you guys love to claim, "even in bankruptcy, no one would let USAirways fail. There's too much money to be made." Plus as a fractured group you have no power to sink the ship anyway. The courts will decide, and that will be the end of it. The idea that you (the east pilots) have a choice in the matter is fantasy. The "choice" ship has set sail long ago. It is out of everyone's control, beyond making your case in court.

You can, and I'm sure will, delay as long as possible. If the declaratory judgment states that the company must use the Nic, you will eventually be forced by the NMB to negotiate in good faith, put a contract out for a vote that will pass, or face further legal consequences. Not to mention that indefinite delay tactics will eventually trigger ripeness, putting you on the hook for another DFR suit and possible damages.

 

[N924PS]

We furlough a 1000 pilots, I don't think any of us will be flying anything for LCC. That's 80+ hulls according to my figures.

Driver B)

How quickly you forget.

31 MD-80's
70 DC-9's
40 F100's
54 Metrojet 737-200's

1800 Pilots furloughed post 9-11.

It can happen again.

 

[A320 Driver]

How quickly you forget.

31 MD-80's
70 DC-9's
40 F100's
54 Metrojet 737-200's

1800 Pilots furloughed post 9-11.

It can happen again.

You forgot to mention what happened next...2 bankruptcies. Your right. It can happen again, but I don't think you would see LCC come out the back end.

Just an opinion.

Driver B)

 

[aquagreen73s]

You forgot to mention what happened next...2 bankruptcies. Your right. It can happen again, but I don't think you would see LCC come out the back end.

Just an opinion.

Driver B)

Yeah...this time there won't be a AWA Holdings to swoop in at the 11th hour.

 

[Irideover]

Not true.

Who flies the airplanes the West brought to the merger if we furlough a thousand pilots under USAPA's plan?

On a DOH list today, if we furlough 1000 pilots it will not be all West.
From Nov 98 to may 08 East has 500 pilots and west has 763

 

[nic4us]

On a DOH list today, if we furlough 1000 pilots it will not be all West.
From Nov 98 to may 08 East has 500 pilots and west has 763

So you are confirming traders statment that a couple hundred pilots who where furloughed at the time of the merger would indeed be flying West airplanes, while the lionshare of the hypothetical furloughs would be West pilots or third listers.

Oh, BTW. Using the Nic, If a 1000 pilots were furloughed. Remove the third listers, and there would be an equal proportion of east and West pilots furloughed.

See you in court.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Then why don't you take the Nic as that's he ensured everyone kept exactly what they brought to the merger.

Because the Nic doesn't do that.

 

[CallawayGolf]

Because the Nic doesn't do that.

Actually, that's exactly what the NIC award does. Every pilot only brought one tangible asset to the merger - a pre-merger seniority number, east or west. NIC integrated the two groups so that very little was gained or lost in terms of "seniority" on the combined list, save for the top 517 WB slots that were protected from the integration. To claim otherwise is just subterfuge.

 

[A320 Driver]

Yeah...this time there won't be a AWA Holdings to swoop in at the 11th hour.

Yeah...we all go down together.

 

[No Land Green]

Because the Nic doesn't do that.

BINGO!!!!! You get it!!!!!!!

 

[CallawayGolf]

BINGO!!!!! You get it!!!!!!!

Pick any pilot, east or west, at random and then calculate his/her seniority position (position # / total population) and then calculate his/her seniority position using the NIC (new position # / new integrated population). What is the delta between the two numbers? Unless you happen to pick a very senior AWA pilot, who lost more than most, chances are there is very little percentage difference between the old seniority position and the new seniority position - just as it should be. Using this unbiased metric I think you'll find that the average AAA pilot gained a smalll amount of seniority and the average AWA pilot lost a bit more seniority because of the top 517 WB protected positions.

Give it a shot and let us know the result of your efforts.

 

[john john]

Fuzzy math