US Pilots Labor Discussion 9/23- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[767jetz]

I hardly see how death by toaster electrocution would be deserved by anyone due to a dispute about seniority. I also don't see how anyone could agree with such an offensive statement.

I certainly hope there are not many USAPA supporters with such radical views. A pilot with these types of morbid thoughts should not be leading a union, let alone responsible for the lives of passengers. Scary!

 

[Black Swan]

I hardly see how death by toaster electrocution would be deserved by anyone due to a dispute about seniority. I also don't see how anyone could agree with such an offensive statement.

I certainly hope there are not many USAPA supporters with such radical views. A pilot with these types of morbid thoughts should not be leading a union, let alone responsible for the lives of passengers. Scary!

I am hoping this is King Cleary or the Vice. It's about time the gloves came off....................

 

[aquagreen73s]

I am hoping this is King Cleary or the Vice. It's about time the gloves came off....................

Yet another meltdown.

Folks, this is what has been driving our situation since 2005. If you are tired of being held hostage by these crackpots who bring nothing other than a sense of entitlement a mile deep, then now is the time to cut our losses and just move on. It comes down to accepting the Nic and getting a contract so that 1000 or so East pilots don't have to spend their remaining years on a bankruptcy contract, or letting this drag out so that the aforementioned radicals hell bent on an agenda that will never yield DOH but will allow them to get what they THINK is theirs. Either way the Nic is coming. Time is ticking. Money is being left on the table that will never be recovered.

 

[nic4us]

This is the absolute TRUTH!!!!!! And it won't last long before the UAL complaint department complains to mommy.

Absolute truth? Do you also reside in this fantasy land where Seham and co. fly thru space without helmets on?

Lee Harvey Oswald killed Kennedy, the Puma Punka was built some 3500 years ago by indigenous peoples, there are no pilots on the West seniority list that are under 30, and the Nic is the only "accepted" seniority list at LCC.

This guy who talks to chimpanzees (probably a reference to Seham) shows up with an over the top, off the wall, fantasy based post full of lies and you think that is absolute truth?

Well if all the east is this manic, time to get out the straight jackets.

 

[Black Swan]

Yet another meltdown.

Folks, this is what has been driving our situation since 2005. If you are tired of being held hostage by these crackpots who bring nothing other than a sense of entitlement a mile deep, then now is the time to cut our losses and just move on. It comes down to accepting the Nic and getting a contract so that 1000 or so East pilots don't have to spend their remaining years on a bankruptcy contract, or letting this drag out so that the aforementioned radicals hell bent on an agenda that will never yield DOH but will allow them to get what they THINK is theirs. Either way the Nic is coming. Time is ticking. Money is being left on the table that will never be recovered.

It comes down to accepting the Nic? Funny how the 9th Court of Appeals San Francisco is just a hazy thought in your heads, and you keep bringing up the Desert Judge and his REMANDED decision. This is why you are continuing to lose. You have NO legal footing. By the way, that post is the all time winner. EDITED BY MODERATOR TO REMOVE COMMENT ABOUT ADMIN/MODERATION.

 

[Freebird]

DELETED POST REMOVED BY MODERATOR


You sound Desperate.

You may want to check your meds. And change your diaper.

And then, look at what the West has in common with the pioneers of the industry. I'll give you a little hint AFO, its called INTEGRITY. So before you accuse the West of not stroking your ego, you may want to learn the history of this merger. It's easy for you to talk tough behind your screenname but, you sir, are clueless as to what is right and wrong. Nothing your in your groups' action has been gentlemenly. Cowardly is more appropriate.

I look forward to spotting you in the Terminal. Your downtrodden posture should be easy to pick out. Be sure to say "hi" or at least Grunt. Interestingly enough, grunting used as a form of communication between primates. You seem well versed.

USAPA = Blame everybody but the East. Still making less than Spirit and LUVIN' it !!!

 

[767jetz]

Hey Jetzzzzz How about the fact these friends out west helped damage the east by holding the pay down? That is going to be some fun counter argument when the boys try to cry their little damage mantra. How are you damaged when you had more vacation and pay for years, and try to cry damage? You aren't , and that is the best part!

Well, that's one way of looking at it. But it is certainly "east biased" because it ignores the fact that the west was supporting pay parity until the east walked away from binding arbitration. Put that fact back into the equation and IMO a neutral third party (judge; jury) will see that holding the pay down was a consequence of east actions and USAPA.

As for how there is damage to the west who was making more in the first place, again that position is biased. You are comparing it with the east as a reference point. But in reality, a judge and jury will not care what the east was making. Only what the west was deprived of.

Remember that if it comes to a damages trial, that would have to come after a successful DFR suit. And in that case it will have already been determined that the union is guilty. All that remains at that point is to determine to what extend that failure to represent harmed the west. It can be anywhere from 0% to 100%, as determined by the court. The west was due a raise. They were in section 6 before the merger came around. All the delay has stopped any chance of an increase above current rates. If it is proven that it happened at the hand of USAPA, then there is damage. Same goes for furloughs that would still have a job if the arbitrated award was implemented. Same goes for downgrades that would not have happened with Nic. Luckily the east in that scenario will not have a say as to what the damages are. It will be in the hands of the court, like most things around here so far.

I understand that Nic can not become the seniority list without a joint contract. But all the west has to do is show that USAPA deliberately delayed a contract in order to prolong separate ops (a claim made by many on this forum) and damages will most likely be awarded. But this whole conversation is premature since there are still many steps before it ever comes to a damages trial.

 

[Richard]

Folks,

Please don't feed the trolls--makes our job much more difficult.

There are now a few of you in the cornfield. I suggest you get back on topic and discuss the issues ONLY.

 

[BoeingBoy]

You forgot one part, so I filled it in for you...

By letting them fly east routes.

You rememeber right after the merger the west had no 321s and the company put east metal on west flight, West dropped below minimum block hours while East was well above minimum and there was an uproar about the blacktops coming west and taking flying? Well, after the west got 321s, LAS mostly shutdown, and PHX shrunk where did those airplanes go? East routes to get West back to minimum block hours. No more uproar, it's okay now! Typical west integrity.

You see, East was flying block hours contractually guaranteed to the West. Once West was flying it's guaranteed minimum, there was no reason to complain about that area. Of course, once West was flying it's guaranteed minimum, the East wasn't happy and regularly pokes that "You're flying our routes" stick in the West's eye. Lots of integrity from the East side in "I want what's mine, what's ours, and most of what's yours".

Jim

 

[Pi brat]

You forgot one part, so I filled it in for you...



You see, East was flying block hours contractually guaranteed to the West. Once West was flying it's guaranteed minimum, there was no reason to complain about that area. Of course, once West was flying it's guaranteed minimum, the East wasn't happy and regularly pokes that "You're flying our routes" stick in the West's eye. Lots of integrity from the East side in "I want what's mine, what's ours, and most of what's yours".

Jim

What gives the right to alter my post so that it looks like I'm saying something else? :angry:

 

[luvn737s]

Then why not get on with it? Why is AOL helping drag it out instead of getting a contract with DOH when it's case will be ripe and you can get on with the smackdown? Think about it, if you get a contract then a sucessful DFR, it's over and you can sue for all those damages you dream about. Get a ruling against DOH list before a contract and there is still a chance of a veto on voting for a joint contract. Put you money where your mouth is.

AOL doesn't put contracts out for a vote USAPA does. USAPA has no injunction preventing it from getting itself in as much trouble as it wants, so (to use a recent expression) why waste a good crisis? Why doesn't USAPA simply throw DOH out there in the AWA contract and see what happens? They have no conscience, so that argument is out the window. They aren't real bright, so I don't expect it's a case of them being cautious. Perhaps they're afraid of falling flat on their face and being tarred with the evidence that supports their replacement.

 

[767jetz]

You forgot one part, so I filled it in for you...

You see, East was flying block hours contractually guaranteed to the West. Once West was flying it's guaranteed minimum, there was no reason to complain about that area. Of course, once West was flying it's guaranteed minimum, the East wasn't happy and regularly pokes that "You're flying our routes" stick in the West's eye. Lots of integrity from the East side in "I want what's mine, what's ours, and most of what's yours".

Jim

Isn't it interesting how forgetting one or two small details changes the meaning of everything?

 

[767jetz]

It's about time the gloves came off....................

Gloves coming off? It's not like USAPA has been holding anything back. They have no gloves to take off. I think they are just out of ammunition. Once the company's Declaratory Judgment is done, so is USAPA.

 

[767jetz]

you keep bringing up the Desert Judge and his REMANDED decision. This is why you are continuing to lose.

I think you mean the jury's decision based on merit, in the Desert Judge's case that he was instructed to dismiss due to ripeness. That would be more accurate.

 

[Pi brat]

Isn't it interesting how forgetting one or two small details changes the meaning of everything?

Yeah, whether it is correct or not. The west complaining started as soon as extra east airplanes appeared in PHX, way before the block hours were violated and when it was completely allowed under the TA. The one USAPA grieved and won despite the fact that the company was in compliance on an annual basis.