US Pilots Labor Discussion 9/23- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[LSS]

The only thing being a MIG gains is a vote on a new joint contract and we all know that a new TA will include the unmodified NIC.

No we don't all know a new contract will contain the NIC... and according to Kirby... that will be determined by an answer to U's motion for Declaratory Judgment.

No one should be counting their chickens before they hatch!

 

[luvthe9]

Speaking of USAPA. Has anyone checked in on the Weasels today? Are they nesting in your dues dollars? Are they still failing to represent the West (DFR)?

Do they still lack Integrity? Are they still cowards?

I think we all know the answers....fortunately Usapa is a failure. Unfortunately the East pilots seem to believe they can get away with this crap, still. LOA93.


USAPA = Life would be so good, if it werent for those meddling kids..... (Scooby Doo/Hannah Barbera)

WOW, what desperation go back and watch some more cartoons.

 

[Hate2fly]

How you ever thought of writing fiction because nothing that you said here has any foundation in the truth.

First give us numbers. How many east F/O’s would never have upgraded stand alone without the merger? How many east F/O’s would never upgrade even using DOH? Now how many will not upgrade using Nicolau? That is the number you have to look at. You cannot add 1800 pilots to your list and expect to now upgrade when you had no expectation of upgrading stand alone and complain. You guys say it all of the time about these mythical never upgrading F/O’s. Shnow me the true facts not just crew room gossip.

Looking at the Nov bid award the junior captain on the 330 S.L. Wilson number 463. If you notice that puts him in the top 517 protected number. The most senior west pilot on a DOH list is 700. Over 200 number JUNIOR to your junior 330 captain. So your statement that 80 west guys can hold it now is flat out untrue, I would go so far as to say that it is a lie. That is something easily checked that you should have known.

S.L Wilson was hired in 2/1984. AWA commenced operation 8/1983 So again your allegation that guys flying 2-3 years before AWA existed but cannot hold it, FALSE.

Until you get your heads out of sand and start learning the facts of what usapa is trying to sell you and what you are trying to convince the rest of the world you will live under LOA 93 forever. I am not sure what the purpose of spreading such untruths is trying to accomplish. You certainly are not going to convince west pilots by lying about the facts. People outside of our little war here will not come to your side if you tell them falsehoods. So you really are doing a disservice to your fellow east pilots by starting or perpetuating myths.

clear,

S. Wilson 6/1981?

Hate

 

[Pi brat]

clear,

S. Wilson 6/1981?

Hate

Come on Clear, you have the chance to do the right thing! 😀

 

[Pi brat]

Or could it be S. Wilson 13303 #620 on the Nic list I have on my computer, now # 463, or 157 numbers senior through east attrition? Naw, that can't be it, the only old guys east leaving are F/Os!

 

[Pi brat]

Speaking of USAPA. Has anyone checked in on the Weasels today? Are they nesting in your dues dollars? Are they still failing to represent the West (DFR)?

Do they still lack Integrity? Are they still cowards?

I think we all know the answers....fortunately Usapa is a failure. Unfortunately the East pilots seem to believe they can get away with this crap, still. LOA93.


USAPA = Life would be so good, if it werent for those meddling kids..... (Scooby Doo/Hannah Barbera)

You left out "Are they still beating their wives?"

 

[Freebird]

You left out "Are they still beating their wives?"

You're assuming they have wives. 😀

Do siblings count as wives?

Usapa= Fingers crossed, behind our backs, ready to make a "DEAL". We're so desperate, we'll sell our sole to the Devil for DOH. Dishonor is the name of the game.

NRBAGFY

 

[Metroyet]

What are you talking about?

Are you kidding or is the myopia truly that deep rooted?

 

[nic4us]

WOW wonders never cease....we have been jousting with
someone who isn't even a union member....could not cast
a vote if he wanted to ....and relegates himself to be on the sidelines
...apparently for the duration......yea..thats the ticket. Hope there
are hundreds more JUST LIKE YOU

NICDOA
NPJB

There is no "union" to join.

Hardly on the sidelines. I vote with my contributions and support to the organization that does represent me. We have kept usapa from realizing its illegal agenda, and will continue to do so for the duration, no matter how the "good union pilots" vote. So from where I sit, your vote means nothing, your association means even less.

There are hundreds like me, many more hundreds who disagree with me, but fund against usapa none the less.

 

[nic4us]

Apparently it(hatred) has affected the west NAC member and reps from the west.

It seems the west NAC member with the help of the PHX reps, wrote a letter, then circumvented the Committee, Committee chair, the BPR, and the Executive Board, and sent it to not only Beth Holdren but to the Mediator as well!

Let's talk about Intent, Motive, and Hatred and Duty and Representation.

Are you teling me they circumvented the communication committe and thereby did not have their position beaten down?

They had the gaul to bypass the discimination of the BPR, The committee chair and the Executive board, and actually voiced their opinion to the Mediator, who is likely already aware of usapa's illegal history?

Wow, the audacity of some people, to actually represent the pilots to which they have an obligation.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Or could it be S. Wilson 13303 #620 on the Nic list I have on my computer, now # 463, or 157 numbers senior through east attrition?

With the large majority of those retiring at age 60 before it changed to 65. Let's look at 2013 - ignoring the few who will reach 65 at the end of 2012 - and see how Barrister's "200 fo a year upgrading" looks. There are less than 200 East pilots who reach 65 in 2013, with hire dates ranging from 1974 to 1999 in a bell curve pattern. Their positions held range from senior 76I captain to junior 737 reserve FO. A not small number are out on medical. A few will have already retired, leaving before reaching 65. Where is the attrition that's going to upgrade 200 F/O's? At least where is it the real world, not the fantasy land where some reside?

Jim

 

[CallawayGolf]

No we don't all know a new contract will contain the NIC... and according to Kirby... that will be determined by an answer to U's motion for Declaratory Judgment.

No one should be counting their chickens before they hatch!

Kirby knows the answer (NIC is it), but Management has little choice but to let the courts prove to USAPA that the award issued via a binding arbitration process cannot be overturned or ignored. I'm sure Management finds USAPA's lack of good faith bargaining propositions just as shameful as the rest of us do, but at least they have the added benefit of knowing that USAPA is saving the company more than $120M annually. I'm sure they don't mind all that much, though I'm sure they would prefer to put this behind them and negotiate with a bonafide CBA rather the house of cards that is USAPA.

 

[nic4us]

I'm not sure what you mean by that first sentence. I've been on the side of trying to find a solution that helps the majority of US pilots move forward, but the behavior of the west makes me want no part of them. I've tried to say that this board doesn't represent the west majority, but resent events on the line seem to show that it does. I'm working on leaving this cesspool and I will not hand over anything to the west, if my junior pilots join the senior in doing that,fine and I will live with it as long as I'm here.

We will see how that not having a vote will work for you. Typical, don't join, don't vote but plenty to say about things.

I meant to say that as a usapa member it is your right to vote no on any contract proposal that you do not feel should be ratified.

Further, I understand your position has frequently not towed the party line, for instance, your opposition to the RICO lawsuit. But what I was saying is that it is one thing to be an east pilot who opposed the RICO suit, and quite another thing being a defendant in that suit.

I am also working on leaving. I began working on alternatives during the Nicolau arbitration, because if the east got what they were asking for, my career could have ended shortly after the award. The irons I put into the fire are starting to pay dividends and I might have to quit to manage other opportunities.

You mention recent events on the line. I will tell you that I witnessed something this week that I had never before seen, and it upset me greatly. A West pilot made a confrontational statement to an east crew entering the PHX crew room. Apparently the week prior the West pilot had a 3 hour sit in CLT and was in the CLT crewroom and approached and told that he was not welcome there, so this week he returned the favor by telling an east crew the same. I have personally been denied an east jumpseat the one and only time I requested one, been ignored and confronted on crew vans and in hotel lobbies, heard snide remarks on ATC frequencies. I have always dismissed these events and forgiven the responsible east pilots and never made an issue of it, or brought it to the chief pilots attention or filed any reports of any kind. I am however, having a very difficult time forgiving this West pilot for stooping to that level.

Maybe it has upset me because for the first time I now see that the West pilots are no longer AWA.

We, the East and West have more in common than we do differences. Unfortunately, we now share a common hatred. If we do not overcome these feelings and soon, we will all be leaving LCC behind. Then I will have no vote, and nothing to say.

Good luck in your future endevours.

 

[Pi brat]

Good luck in your future endevours.

And the best of luck to you in yours. It truly is a shame that we ended up this way, suing one another, slinging insults at each other, etc. I really don't think it had to turn out this way.

 

[cleardirect]

Come on Clear, you have the chance to do the right thing! 😀

I stand corrected I edited my post. S.L. Wilson 2/1981.

Anyone care to admit their error that 80 west pilots can hold a 330?