US Pilots Labor Discussion 9/23- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[Pi brat]

With the large majority of those retiring at age 60 before it changed to 65. Let's look at 2013 - ignoring the few who will reach 65 at the end of 2012 - and see how Barrister's "200 fo a year upgrading" looks. There are less than 200 East pilots who reach 65 in 2013, with hire dates ranging from 1974 to 1999 in a bell curve pattern. Their positions held range from senior 76I captain to junior 737 reserve FO. A not small number are out on medical. A few will have already retired, leaving before reaching 65. Where is the attrition that's going to upgrade 200 F/O's? At least where is it the real world, not the fantasy land where some reside?

Jim

I thought you weren't talking to me since I had the nerve to ask what shaped your views. Ask Barrister, I never put those numbers out there. Are you questioning that Captain Wilson went from #620 to # 463 due to previous east attrition?

 

[Pi brat]

I stand corrected I edited my post. S.L. Wilson 2/1981.

Anyone care to admit their error that 80 west pilots can hold a 330?

Thanks Clear. Wilson is a pretty common name, easy to mistake. You did see that he was not in the protected 517, didn't you? My numbers show him at 620 when Nic came out. A quick count shows 40 P numbers in front of him, but I have no way of knowing if they are still around.

 

[cleardirect]

Thanks Clear. Wilson is a pretty common name, easy to mistake. You did see that he was not in the protected 517, didn't you? My numbers show him at 620 when Nic came out. A quick count shows 40 P numbers in front of him, but I have no way of knowing if they are still around.

The latest updated DOH list I have from June shows the most senior west pilot at 701. The most junior 330 captain is 463. No west pilot is close to being a captain on the 330.

The proposed LOS AAA list started the first west pilot at 899.

On the Nicolau 40 possible is not 80. How many east pilots can bid the 330 but do not?

 

[Freighterguynow]

You mention recent events on the line. I will tell you that I witnessed something this week that I had never before seen, and it upset me greatly. A West pilot made a confrontational statement to an east crew entering the PHX crew room.

All with 'integrity' I 'm sure ...

 

[Barrister]

I meant to say that as a usapa member it is your right to vote no on any contract proposal that you do not feel should be ratified.

Further, I understand your position has frequently not towed the party line, for instance, your opposition to the RICO lawsuit. But what I was saying is that it is one thing to be an east pilot who opposed the RICO suit, and quite another thing being a defendant in that suit.

I am also working on leaving. I began working on alternatives during the Nicolau arbitration, because if the east got what they were asking for, my career could have ended shortly after the award. The irons I put into the fire are starting to pay dividends and I might have to quit to manage other opportunities.

You mention recent events on the line. I will tell you that I witnessed something this week that I had never before seen, and it upset me greatly. A West pilot made a confrontational statement to an east crew entering the PHX crew room. Apparently the week prior the West pilot had a 3 hour sit in CLT and was in the CLT crewroom and approached and told that he was not welcome there, so this week he returned the favor by telling an east crew the same. I have personally been denied an east jumpseat the one and only time I requested one, been ignored and confronted on crew vans and in hotel lobbies, heard snide remarks on ATC frequencies. I have always dismissed these events and forgiven the responsible east pilots and never made an issue of it, or brought it to the chief pilots attention or filed any reports of any kind. I am however, having a very difficult time forgiving this West pilot for stooping to that level.

Maybe it has upset me because for the first time I now see that the West pilots are no longer AWA.

We, the East and West have more in common than we do differences. Unfortunately, we now share a common hatred. If we do not overcome these feelings and soon, we will all be leaving LCC behind. Then I will have no vote, and nothing to say.

Good luck in your future endevours.

You know where I stand on the issues but I would not hesitate to intervene
on behalf of a West guy who was minding his own busines and was acosted
by an East guy. That is not tolerated. That is why Nothing Personal Just Business!

NICDOA
NPJB

 

[Barrister]

The latest updated DOH list I have from June shows the most senior west pilot at 701. The most junior 330 captain is 463. No west pilot is close to being a captain on the 330.

The proposed LOS AAA list started the first west pilot at 899.

On the Nicolau 40 possible is not 80. How many east pilots can bid the 330 but do not?

On the original NIC list I found (AT THE TIME)
the last 330 guy and counted Westies on up.
There have since been displacements from the 330
about 20-25 I think. You don't have to displace many
guys to get real senior real fast. For you industrious
types why don't you run the NIC list as of today minus
attritionand and publish it. How about you BB
you are retired aren't you???

NICDOA
NPJB

 

[Pi brat]

The latest updated DOH list I have from June shows the most senior west pilot at 701. The most junior 330 captain is 463. No west pilot is close to being a captain on the 330.

The proposed LOS AAA list started the first west pilot at 899.

On the Nicolau 40 possible is not 80. How many east pilots can bid the 330 but do not?

You didn't answer my question, and I wasn't defending the 80, just saying what I saw on the list as you seem to have trouble pulling names and numbers from it.

 

[Barrister]

Or could it be S. Wilson 13303 #620 on the Nic list I have on my computer, now # 463, or 157 numbers senior through east attrition? Naw, that can't be it, the only old guys east leaving are F/Os!


OK..... so for November the bottom 330 guy is Riolo. On the NIC list I found Riolo.
Counted 71 names above him in RED. Scientific no......point made......YES

NICDOA
NPJB

 

[cleardirect]

You didn't answer my question, and I wasn't defending the 80, just saying what I saw on the list as you seem to have trouble pulling names and numbers from it.

There are 32 of the 40 left. Does that answer your question?

 

[Ames]

Pretty self-explanatory.

You obviously can't explain it. Name one east asset that was given to the west. While you're checking, do tell where the three additional 757's, 330's and the 190's went since the "merger". So much for sharing growth.

 

[Ames]

Wow, this is really getting old same old stuff, the NIC is dead and gone it's just not going to happen lets move on to something else, 🙁 🙁

Just keep telling yourself that, bucko....

 

[cleardirect]

Wow, this is really getting old same old stuff, the NIC is dead and gone it's just not going to happen lets move on to something else, 🙁 🙁

So you say the Nic is dead. Interesting, does the company know that? You know the other side of the table that you have to get to agree. If the Nic was dead why oh why are we in court with the company asking a judge if they have to use the Nicolau or if they can really used something else? If the Nic is dead... never mind I forgot about the disconnect of logic that happens on the east.

 

[mikey60]

Speaking of USAPA. Has anyone checked in on the Weasels today? Are they nesting in your dues dollars? Are they still failing to represent the West (DFR)?

Do they still lack Integrity? Are they still cowards?

I think we all know the answers....fortunately Usapa is a failure. Unfortunately the East pilots seem to believe they can get away with this crap, still. LOA93.


USAPA = Life would be so good, if it werent for those meddling kids..... (Scooby Doo/Hannah Barbera)

sticks and stones will break my bones but names will never hurt us.

 

[BoeingBoy]

For you industrious
types why don't you run the NIC list as of today minus
attritionand and publish it. How about you BB
you are retired aren't you???

NICDOA
NPJB

It's not so much a matter of time as it is having the complete information I don't know if anybodies "list" is correct since you need both separate lists with everyone's status, DOH, and DOB and that integrated with the Nic list. Just having the Nic list, either a reasonable current East or West list and bid results doesn't give one enough info to accurately update an old combined seniority list.

I suspect that there are a lot of numbers being thrown around without any real accuracy because people don't have all the necessary info to get that accuracy (like hundreds of FO's upgrading per year from attrition). For myself, I can be pretty accurate on the East side but don't even have a West list. Hence I don't comment about West pilots' positions, or anything involving their status.

Jim

 

[mikey60]

You obviously can't explain it. Name one east asset that was given to the west. While you're checking, do tell where the three additional 757's, 330's and the 190's went since the "merger". So much for sharing growth.

They went where the company wanted them .....EAST.