US Pilots Labor Discussion 9/23- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[Pi brat]

PI-

I do not believe anyone that doesn't believe the Nic is unfair is an "unethical land grabber". The Nic IS unfair. Every pilot East or West knew that this merger could never be fair to every pilot, top to bottom, on a combined seniority list.

That is why, after attempting to negotiate and mediate an acceptable list, both pilot groups AGREED to binding arbitration. Nicolau ruled, even offering an eleventh hour escape for both sides to yield a bit for a more palatable result.

To be clear, I never believed in Seham's plan to overturn the Nic by throwing ALPA off the island. I didn't vote for USAPA but I am a member, pay my dues and assessments on time, and have my vote when the time comes. And if a T/A is presented that includes DOH with USAPA crafted C&R's, I will vote NO. Because I don't think that is fair. And it certainly ,thus far, has had no input from the West pilots.

As far as my PS career, I could have held BAE146 Captain for several years prior to the merger, but chose to remain a F/O because I didn't want to commute to reserve (sound familiar?). I came East as the former PSA bases were pared down and finally closed.

You are correct in that I would like to close out my career with a shorter commute, but I believe circumstances will keep me a transcon commuter and LOA 93 pilot for the short duration remaining of my USAirways career.

I wish more of the East pilots were as thoughtful as you and Piedmont 1984 in considering alternatives to DOH. ALPA and USAPA leaders have painted the pilots of USAirways into a corner that apparently only the courts can extricate them from.

A young man such as yourself may actually see this to its final solution. Best of luck.

Highest Regards
N924PS

PS,

I was out of line for calling you out. I could have used a generic example. I apologize.

I cannot disagree with anything in your post, and like you I did not vote for USAPA, I didn't see it working, but I joined on day one as they are my legally elected union. You are right, in the end we have one vote.

Take care.

 

[Freighterguynow]

It's either status quo for at least another couple of years and then the Nic, or a payraise now and the Nic now. Those are the two options.

You think you are in charge - how cute.

 

[aquagreen73s]

There's only so much you can do with C&R's and almost by definition they work for one set of future events. Then there's the whole question of who interprets the C&R's when there a question of how they will work in a particular situation.

Finally, there's the issue of the company who is the party that bears the cost of the factors you mention, plus the potential loss of flexibility as compared to no C&Rs.

You think you are in charge - how cute.

No. Reality is driving this bus.

How's that DOH working out for you? Have you figured out the reality yet of the promises made during the CBA election?

 

[BoeingBoy]

Yes but you completely ignore the fact that pure math....

Well, that sure settles it. Nothing matters in this industry except math. I guess those furloughed pilots who hit retirement age while furloughed just weren't good enough at math to check out...

Jim

 

[Heretic]

Well, that sure settles it. Nothing matters in this industry except math. I guess those furloughed pilots who hit retirement age while furloughed just weren't good enough at math to check out...

Jim

Now, now, Jim; being flippant doesn't become you. I am certain that you care about all our furloughed pilots.

 

[Phoenix]

..

How's that DOH working out for you?

Just fine. Everything is the same as before. Thanks for asking.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Now, now, Jim; being flippant doesn't become you. I am certain that you care about all our furloughed pilots.

After seeing pilots retire from furlough status and about 1 of every 4 F/O's I flew with my last several years retire from the right seat some statements are just too far removed from reality to let pass. It's amazing how all that changed, according to some, the moment the Nic award came out and every F/O was suddenly going to at least be a Capt if not a 330 Capt and the Nic was going to unfairly keep them from their rightful positions.

But I can count on Barrister to keep coming up with the jokes...

Jim

 

[Ames]

What are you talking about? Let's face the facts. The Nic shifts the east's assets to the west pilots, period. At least be honest with yourself.

Please explain this one....

 

[Run Like Hell]

No he didn't, you must not understand the difference in seniority vs. longevity either. A new hire at AWA had not much seniority OR longevity, but the difference in the two groups was that the average age of the west bottom of the list vs. the east bottom of the list was younger, looking at the top of their list that was also younger, so their expected progression, absent growth that was probably going to die, would be slower. Again, that's what gets me about Nic, by the time he made his award he could already see that his assumptions were wrong.

Has nothing to do with it, you want yours NOW and the Westies can have it, well? maybe later...


It's a snapshot in time, put them together, that's it. Any assumptions of what the company might do, could do in the future, expansion, mergers, etc. can't be considered.

This we're old and be deserve more attitude is very condicending.

 

[Pi brat]

Has nothing to do with it, you want yours NOW and the Westies can have it, well? maybe later...


It's a snapshot in time, put them together, that's it. Any assumptions of what the company might do, could do in the future, expansion, mergers, etc. can't be considered.

This we're old and be deserve more attitude is very condicending.

There's an intelligent conversation. Keep screaming.

 

[Pi brat]

Please explain this one....

Pretty self-explanatory.

 

[Run Like Hell]

A sure sign we are all getting old is that we are having the same argument we had 3+ years ago. Be that as it may:

If you take the bottom pilot from each list, both have the same relative position. But the east pilot has many more years of active service for the company. So which one should be slotted above the other? Throw in the fact that the east pilot is also probably older, and my version of fairness and common sense says the east pilot goes above the west pilot.

spoken like a true eastie.. "we're older, we don't want to pull gear for some young kid" wa, wa, wa..

 

[mikey60]

spoken like a true eastie.. "we're older, we don't want to pull gear for some young kid" wa, wa, wa..

Actually were NOT going to pull anything for some young kid.hahaha

 

[Barrister]

After seeing pilots retire from furlough status and about 1 of every 4 F/O's I flew with my last several years retire from the right seat some statements are just too far removed from reality to let pass. It's amazing how all that changed, according to some, the moment the Nic award came out and every F/O was suddenly going to at least be a Capt if not a 330 Capt and the Nic was going to unfairly keep them from their rightful positions.

But I can count on Barrister to keep coming up with the jokes...

Jim

You, who so often resorts to the prove I said what you said I said....
now show me where I said that every FO would have checked out but for the NIC!!
Well ......

There really is only one way to tell isn't it. Sep ops when attrition kicks in. We'll wait thank you!!

NICDOA
NPJB

 

[Barrister]

Well, that sure settles it. Nothing matters in this industry except math. I guess those furloughed pilots who hit retirement age while furloughed just weren't good enough at math to check out...

Jim

As a matter of fact I went back and re-read my post.
I simply said MANY F/Os would have checked out as
Captain and now they will not under NIC. You must be
reading these messages with those cool shades on!!

I see stress fractures in your arguments are beginning
to show.

NICDOA
NPJB