US Pilots Labor Discussion 9/23- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[cleardirect]

Nope. You numbers are wrong.

You will forgive me if I don't take your word for it.

I showed my work. How about proving me wrong instead.

 

[AWE Dog]

USAPA hides behind the false "longevity is seniority" argument so an East Reserve F/O can steal the job of a West Captain.

The job you have is of higher value than the time it took you to get it, sorry you can't grasp that concept.

Can you say Conditions and Restrictions? In case you haven't noticed the company pays more for longevity, the longer it took to get the job the more it pays. Sorry you can't grasp that concept.

 

[AWE Dog]

So that would be a union that fails to represent the interests of ALL members? Hang onto them pennies son!

A new hire can be represented without being placed a head of a 17 year LOS pilot.

 

[BoeingBoy]

In case you haven't noticed the company pays more for longevity, the longer it took to get the job the more it pays.

I do hape you're kidding. I haven't seen a 20 year 737 fo making more per hour than a 15 year 737 fo yet.

Jim

 

[traderjake]

Can you say Conditions and Restrictions?

Then put Conditions and Restrictions around the NIC award and put it out for a contract vote.

USAPA won't do it because they know it would pass and C&R's don't fix anything.

 

[Run Like Hell]

A new hire can be represented without being placed a head of a 17 year LOS pilot.

Your 17 years ain't worth much, At least the AWA "New Hire" had some senority. Your 17 year guy had NONE!!

 

[luvn737s]

A new hire can be represented without being placed a head of a 17 year LOS pilot.

LOS is meaningless in a seniority integration.

It's only "Senior" or "Junior"

Why is this such a tough concept to grasp?

 

[john john]

Why is this such a tough concept to grasp?

Because no other union in the world does it

 

[NYGiantsFan90]

Better go over and look at AA and the TWU, APA and APFA and see how the former TWA employees were shafted.

Ask how the Reno Air employees faired.

Kasher Arbitration makes the Nic like a great deal

 

[Pi brat]

We should have just let them shut down and bought Airtran instead! Hindsight

AWA would have had to have money to do that, and they had precious little.

 

[Pi brat]

You will forgive me if I don't take your word for it.

I showed my work. How about proving me wrong instead.

I'm not sure I can , yet. Got the real numbers from a friend that got them from somewhere. Let me check with him and I will get back to you, but you might want to recheck AOL's spreadsheet for today.

 

[Barrister]

An East pilot should be the first to realize that there are no guarantees in this industry. Your "absolute fact" assumes one set of circumstances and no other. Just like the 1989 hires were told with "absolute certainty" that they would be captains in a few years based on a certain assumption. One could just as easily say that it was an "absolute fact" that the East pilots would have been on the street hoping to start over at a new carrier without the merger. Or that it was an "absolute fact" that HP would have gotten widebodies and been flying trans-Pac without the merger. In short, you devise an argument then pick "facts" to support it. This industry has a way of making assumed "facts" wrong.

Jim

You are wrong yet again. His FACTS are the age differences between the 2 groups
and how many East F/Os will retire in the right seat under NIC. Your age is a certain
fact that WILL NEVER CHANGE. The retirement bar moved 5 years for EVERYONE The numbers
are consant based on AGE. Age 65 retirements are a known FACT. A MINIMUM
number out the door. Your pomposity and bias cloud your analysis once again.
It is an absolute FACT that under NIC 300 guys went on top of me and
184 are younger than me. EACH pilot on the East knows his own FACT as to where they stand under the NIC.

NICDOA
NPJB

 

[Pi brat]

boeingplt mst be that 1 out of 10 then. Maybe you can explain it to him/her next time you see him/her. While you're at it, explain it to USAPA - they seem to like predicting 10-15 years down the road.



Nothing that's in the future is set in stone - West pilots may start dropping like flies or the retirement age may be changed to 70 and the attrition goes up in smoke. However, Nicolau heard the testimony and saw the evidence both sides presented and made a judgment that both sides had agreed to abide by. It's really that simple.

Jim

You are right, nothing is set in stone. That's one of the reasons that I think Nic got it wrong. He went too far with career expectations. The day the merger is done all previous expectations are out the window-7 year upgrades and US shutting down, and now all future expectations are tied to the new company. So that leaves someone to figure out how to split the baby when the combined baby is smaller than the two halves. As volatile as this industry is I think you should take the lists as they are on a given day, plot out career progression from that day forward using the retirement age in place a the time and the current fleet, and THEN come up with a slot that will move the majority up all that curve as much as possible. Nic didn't do that, going forward that curve moves the east down and west up, transferring more opportunities of the new company west. You are right, it was up to Nic and he did what he thought was right, I and 9 out of 10 east think he got it wrong, even if we disagree that DOH was the only other way it should be done. None of it matters, we will wait on the courts, I just get fed up with west b.s., like you and the west get fed up with east b.s.

 

[Pi brat]

USAPA hides behind the false "longevity is seniority" argument so an East Reserve F/O can steal the job of a West Captain.

Trader,

I don't know any of the guys that started USAPA, and I don't know many that currently run it, but I know thousands of regular east pilots and the only ones that I have ever heard that want anything from the west are the few I know in the top 517 that are chomping at the bit to get into PHX. Everybody else I know just wants to move up on the east side as close to possible as they would have absent the merger.

 

[Pi brat]

Then put Conditions and Restrictions around the NIC award and put it out for a contract vote.

USAPA won't do it because they know it would pass and C&R's don't fix anything.

Trader,

Haven't you been listening? That won't work with the west. It's 100% Nic, unaltered or nothing. It's that attitude that makes so many east guys that would be moderate figure they might as well wait out the courts.