US Pilots Labor Discussion 9/23- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[nic4us]

No, the west is doing 28% of the east flying. That is real job theft!

Swan,

For those of us that know how to do math, your misquote is somewhat laughable.

 

[Barrister]

Sure, no problem.

SEPERATE OPS WITH MIN BLOCK HOURS AND MIN FLEET.....SEPERATE OPS WITH MIN BLOCK HOURS AND MIN FLEET...

Sure beats having my job stolen by a furloughed usapian.

Now how about you go stand in your corner and chant....LOA93..LOA93...run along now junior!!!!

Yo, dude your wish list above IS NOT IN "the Kirby" oh yea, that's right you don't care as long as yoa got the NIC....NOT

NICDOA
NPJB

 

[Run Like Hell]

Sounds like the company isn't so sure the Nic is final and binding. Who is stealing from who? Isn't the west doing 20% of east flying. That says volumes all by itself. The east is saving many west jobs. hummm...

Actually they are very sure it is final and binding.

However they have been trying (unsuccessfully) to convince the west to compromise.

Trouble is they have nothing to offer, compromise on the nic to get kirby or kirby + 3% so the east can parity?

Sorry, getting the east a raise or even parity is just not that important to us.




We'll stick with C2004 and the TA protections for now. You can continue to suffer under LOA 93 until you come to your senses.

 

[BoeingBoy]

You better strap in because there is panic in Tempe, and the AMR machine just might come calling. It certainly isn't ALPA, and there are not really interested in seeing you guys position yourselves with the Nic.

And you think they're interested in seeing the East position itself with DOH??? If so you need to go on tour with your comedy act...

Let's see - federal law says negotiate/arbitrate. Remind me again how the last few merger arbitrations have gone. Of course, AA could do a RAH/Midwest trick - no merger, just eliminate nerly all US employees (AA wouldn't even need to keep the US name). Food for thought...

Jim

 

[exB717Flyer]

No, the west is doing 28% of the east flying. That is real job theft!

Question: is the Transition Agreement being violated and if so why hasn't USAPA grieved it?

Answer: the Transition Agreement is NOT being violated so the only theft going on is air from your FUD balloon.

 

[AWE Dog]

Well I would much prefer to launch my career "Mesa style" (whatever that means) than to steal it from a fellow pilot usapa style.

Let's see, USAPA style, A union that puts a higher value on a 17 year employee over a 17 DAY employee. What a concept. Worth every penny and yours too.

 

[luvn737s]

Let's see, USAPA style, A union that puts a higher value on a 17 year employee over a 17 DAY employee. What a concept. Worth every penny and yours too.

So that would be a union that fails to represent the interests of ALL members? Hang onto them pennies son!

 

[Pi brat]

I will take NONE for $1000 Alex.

Top 517 go to the east.

1000 on the Nicolau 20.9% 10.9% AWA stand alone, 37.8% DOH
1500 31.4% 24.2 53.0
2000 41.9 37.3 65.8
2500 52.4 49.3 69.1
3000 62.9 59.1 71.8
3500 73.3 70.6 76.4
4000 83.8 82.3 90.1
4500 94.3 94.0 100

As you can see west pilots loss relative position no matter what you use. DOH is a huge hit.

If the DOH switch was flip tomorrow how many east guys would loss relative seniority? Care to post the GAIN?

Nope. You numbers are wrong.

 

[boeingplt]

Nope. You numbers are wrong.

The slight of hand in the "your relative position is roughly the same the day after nic as it was the day before nic" arguement lies in the absolute fact that the west pilots' relative position under nic improves increasingly over time compared to pre merger progression and the east pilots' declines increasingly over time per the same measurement.

 

[BoeingBoy]

the absolute fact that the west pilots' relative position under nic improves increasingly over time compared to pre merger progression and the east pilots' declines increasingly over time per the same measurement.

An East pilot should be the first to realize that there are no guarantees in this industry. Your "absolute fact" assumes one set of circumstances and no other. Just like the 1989 hires were told with "absolute certainty" that they would be captains in a few years based on a certain assumption. One could just as easily say that it was an "absolute fact" that the East pilots would have been on the street hoping to start over at a new carrier without the merger. Or that it was an "absolute fact" that HP would have gotten widebodies and been flying trans-Pac without the merger. In short, you devise an argument then pick "facts" to support it. This industry has a way of making assumed "facts" wrong.

Jim

 

[traderjake]

Let's see, USAPA style, A union that puts a higher value on a 17 year employee over a 17 DAY employee.

Look at your paycheck, the rest of the world puts a higher value on a 10 year Captain than a 25 year F/O.

The job you have is of higher value than the time it took you to get it, sorry you can't grasp that concept.

USAPA hides behind the false "longevity is seniority" argument so an East Reserve F/O can steal the job of a West Captain.

 

[Pi brat]

An East pilot should be the first to realize that there are no guarantees in this industry.

Jim

Heck Jim, 9 out of 10 east pilots have been around long enough to know that. Try teaching your west buddies and Nicolau. I mean, they had x number of airplanes on order, they were growing, EVERYBODY was going to be a captain in 7 years, US Airways IS going to shut down, you know, all those things that were set in stone.

 

[Run Like Hell]

This is the airline business the newcomers have lot to learn. If you can’t handle it you better find another line of business

Oh thank you Daddy, are you going to show me the ropes? I feel so much wiser just being in your all knowing presence.


Your condescending tone is what we have grown to expect from east pilots.


By the way Daddy, I AIN'T A NEWCOMER and I UNDERSTAND THE AIRLINE BUSINESS!


BUT I'm not going to allow you to affect my hard earned job security and advancement possibilities because of your lopsided east seniority list, your crumby career and you desire to fix it at my expense.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Heck Jim, 9 out of 10 east pilots have been around long enough to know that.

boeingplt mst be that 1 out of 10 then. Maybe you can explain it to him/her next time you see him/her. While you're at it, explain it to USAPA - they seem to like predicting 10-15 years down the road.

Try teaching your west buddies and Nicolau. I mean, they had x number of airplanes on order, they were growing, EVERYBODY was going to be a captain in 7 years, US Airways IS going to shut down, you know, all those things that were set in stone.

Nothing that's in the future is set in stone - West pilots may start dropping like flies or the retirement age may be changed to 70 and the attrition goes up in smoke. However, Nicolau heard the testimony and saw the evidence both sides presented and made a judgment that both sides had agreed to abide by. It's really that simple.

Jim

 

[Run Like Hell]

Heck Jim, 9 out of 10 east pilots have been around long enough to know that. Try teaching your west buddies and Nicolau. I mean, they had x number of airplanes on order, they were growing, EVERYBODY was going to be a captain in 7 years, US Airways IS going to shut down, you know, all those things that were set in stone.

We should have just let them shut down and bought Airtran instead! Hindsight