US Pilots Labor Discussion 9/23- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[Black Swan]

I agree with your numbers, but believe you will have to do it by putting ALPA back in office to pull it off. Can the hatred of ALPA be overcome? I don't know but if that's your plan I wish you would go ahead and start a card drive so that if we are going that way we can get on with it.

PI- he is way off with the numbers. Only off by 29! If Kasher comes in, and those rates go where they should go, there is NO way the west will ever get another chance of getting this group together. If you give them the Nic, they lock most of the East guys that brought those numbers to the table and I guarantee that will never get a yes vote. If the LOA 93 deal is lost, then they will have a chance to negotiate. LOA 93 win, they are totally in the rear view mirror for a long time.

 

[Black Swan]

I agree with your numbers, but believe you will have to do it by putting ALPA back in office to pull it off. Can the hatred of ALPA be overcome? I don't know but if that's your plan I wish you would go ahead and start a card drive so that if we are going that way we can get on with it.

ALPA has got to be more worried than a Delta mid level manager. They have just lost another big one, Airtran, and now Delta is getting something going. Not addressing the Nic is going to haunt Prater to the end of his life. Windfall. And they did NOTHING to correct it, we gave them their walking papers for it. The fact they let this go down was the start of a nasty little fall down the stairs.

 

[Pi brat]

PI- he is way off with the numbers. Only off by 29! If Kasher comes in, and those rates go where they should go, there is NO way the west will ever get another chance of getting this group together. If you give them the Nic, they lock most of the East guys that brought those numbers to the table and I guarantee that will never get a yes vote. If the LOA 93 deal is lost, then they will have a chance to negotiate. LOA 93 win, they are totally in the rear view mirror for a long time.

Shhh, I'm trying to make him feel good about his math skills!

 

[Hate2fly]

Exactly. Or to put it another way, the connection between longevity and seniority among different airlines fluctuates as do the value of currencies among countries. One unit of currency in Mexico, the peso, does not have the same value as one unit of currency in say, the U.S. The hard part for airline pilots is that there is no free market to gauge the value of the "currencies" each brings to a merger. So, we do the next best thing - arbitration. A third party neutral is in a far better position to relatively value what each brings to the table and then assimilate a list accordingly. What's preposterous is to think that one party alone has the ability to objectively determine what is fair for both sides. Only USAPA and their supporters believe this is possible. Only USAPA and their supporters believe the law would endorse such a concept. Nobody in the real world agrees with this. The court filings are now just a matter of going through the motions. USAPA will never achieve DOH. If that fact isn't clear to the East now, then it will be soon.

aqua,

When you were in law school you really should have spent more time on labor law. Other than your desert judge there isn't any judge in this land that would ever try to get inside of a labor unions negotiating process. We have tried to tell you so many times and you still don't listen! The company is going to get an answer and you are not going to like it. DOH is going to happen! Kirby was telling you guys in the crew news that it is coming.......so get ready!

Keep the donations coming.


Hate

 

[nic4us]

A show of hands. If the switch was flipped tomorrow and the Nic was implemented, how many west pilots relative position would be higher on the Nic than the stand alone west list.

Well, if you use the numbers Nicolau did, 100% of the West lost relative seniority.

Still holds true if you flip the switch tomorrow, next week, two years ago when we furloughed out of seniority.

 

[Pi brat]

Well, if you use the numbers Nicolau did, 100% of the West lost relative seniority.

Still holds true if you flip the switch tomorrow, next week, two years ago when we furloughed out of seniority.

You were furloughed out of west seniority order? That's the only way it could be done as a joint seniority list of any kind can't be used until we have a joint contract. Better hope we finish this before another merger and the west furloughees get stapled, since they bring no job to the new merger and all.

And I said, as of today, how many would have gained relative position.

 

[nic4us]

If the LOA 93 deal is lost, then they will have a chance to negotiate.

Swan,

You have not been paying attention.

There is no negotiating. There is no West representation to negotiate with, much less one willing to compromise on the Nic.

Your choices are, seperate ops, seperate contracts. Joint ops, Nic contract. Same choice you have had for the past 3.5 years.

Problem is, the company is tiring of your first option.

 

[Hate2fly]

ALPA has got to be more worried than a Delta mid level manager. They have just lost another big one, Airtran, and now Delta is getting something going. Not addressing the Nic is going to haunt Prater to the end of his life. Windfall. And they did NOTHING to correct it, we gave them their walking papers for it. The fact they let this go down was the start of a nasty little fall down the stairs.
[/quote

Swan,
ALPA numbers will continue to dwindle! My UAL buddies are wondering why they are still paying dues to ALPA when it really benefits the regionals more than them. The MDA law suit is going to hurt Herndon. I keep thinking of the good things.......

Loa 93 pay restoration
PBGC law suit
Lump sum payout $10,000 on Jan. 1, 2011
Profit Sharing
East Attrition and new hires coming to the east
MDA lawsuit

2011 is going to be a big year back east!
Hate

 

[nic4us]

aqua,

When you were in law school you really should have spent more time on labor law. Other than your desert judge there isn't any judge in this land that would ever try to get inside of a labor unions negotiating process. We have tried to tell you so many times and you still don't listen! The company is going to get an answer and you are not going to like it. DOH is going to happen! Kirby was telling you guys in the crew news that it is coming.......so get ready!

Keep the donations coming.


Hate

Hate,

You are a laugh a minute. Is that what Kirby was saying? I remember Kirby stating that not only Judge Wake, but also Judge Bybee found usapa to be (hmm..what is the correct word for a bunch of malcontent whinners that formed a union to steal jobs ).....culpable.

The company is going to get an answere alright. Only it is not going to be one of the two Kirby suggested are the only possible outcomes, and the company is not going to like it, usapa won't understand it, and we will spin our wheels as the company slowly deteriorates into a replica of the defunct airline you used to work for. Only this time, our salaries will subsidize the bottom line and the end will come somewhat slower.

But just to make you feel better about your DOH is coming statement....

I keep the contributions going...and I am ready for DOH, are you ready for the Nic?

 

[Metroyet]

ALPA has got to be more worried than a Delta mid level manager. They have just lost another big one, Airtran, and now Delta is getting something going. Not addressing the Nic is going to haunt Prater to the end of his life. Windfall. And they did NOTHING to correct it, we gave them their walking papers for it. The fact they let this go down was the start of a nasty little fall down the stairs.

Prater did nothing to "correct" it because there was nothing wrong with it. There is nothing to correct. If it is so "correctable" as you suggest, USAPA hasn't been able to do a single SOLITARY thing about the presence and acceptance of the Nic. Despite having all the numbers and all the money. What is USAPA waiting for? Rhetorical question actually. I already know the answer. It's called the Law. It's immovable despite what the band of FPL charlatans continually regurgitate to you.

Also, there isn't another carrier that could give the slightest bit of a rats behind what happened with the Nic. That's just more Eastie delusions that the world is revolving around them. Nobody cares. NOBODY ELSE CARES what you think happened to the East via legal, pre-ordained, previously agreed to, mutually consented upon, BINDING arbitration. ALPA is gone at Airtran because of a business deal...What percentage of the pilots actually voted ALPA onto the property? Any idea?

Who cares about a democratic election though right? You guys grow more delusional by the day. The situational ethics and hypocrisy continually displayed by USAPA and the minority hardliners is so bright and loud it could wake the dead...and you actually think nobody notices. That's the hysterical part.

 

[nic4us]

My UAL buddies are wondering why they are still paying dues to ALPA when it really benefits the regionals more than them.

Hate

Tell them to toss ALPA, vote in a new union, steal the Continental pilots jobs, and live like a usapa pilot on the backs of others.

 

[luvthe9]

Swan,

You have not been paying attention.

There is no negotiating. There is no West representation to negotiate with, much less one willing to compromise on the Nic.

Your choices are, seperate ops, seperate contracts. Joint ops, Nic contract. Same choice you have had for the past 3.5 years.

Problem is, the company is tiring of your first option.

Then bring the vaunted legion of Leonidas. They can litigate, then surely they can negotiate.

 

[Black Swan]

Hate,

You are a laugh a minute. Is that what Kirby was saying? I remember Kirby stating that not only Judge Wake, but also Judge Bybee found usapa to be (hmm..what is the correct word for a bunch of malcontent whinners that formed a union to steal jobs ).....culpable.

The company is going to get an answere alright. Only it is not going to be one of the two Kirby suggested are the only possible outcomes, and the company is not going to like it, usapa won't understand it, and we will spin our wheels as the company slowly deteriorates into a replica of the defunct airline you used to work for. Only this time, our salaries will subsidize the bottom line and the end will come somewhat slower.

But just to make you feel better about your DOH is coming statement....

I keep the contributions going...and I am ready for DOH, are you ready for the Nic?

The wheels can fall off. It has been managements' decision to not lead and merge this mess. The right leadership and this thing could have moved forward. A lot of us were initially hopeful about this merger. The minute we heard Parker, he became just like the rest of the losers who have had the helm of this crappy airline. They choose daily to be mediocre, and it shows. A lot of us have just a few more years anyway. Let it fall apart. It might do the rest of the industry a big favor. As far as Bybee? Have you read about him and his little waterboarding escapades? Just another right wing nut job who hates labor anyway.

 

[crazystnic]

sorry, but the east is not tiring of this at all. Patience. My father always told me, patience my boy.
we have been waiting for the attriton to kick in and we are not going to let some new hire westie take it.

I don't want your left seat. I just want the left seat that the east attrition has coming to us.

will live under LOA 93 for as long as it takes, and yes I fly 75 hours or less a month.

I'm a good union pilot
cheers

 

[Barrister]

Well, if you use the numbers Nicolau did, 100% of the West lost relative seniority.

Still holds true if you flip the switch tomorrow, next week, two years ago when we furloughed out of seniority.

Go stand in the corner and repeat 1000 times....SEPERATE OPS....SEPERATE OPS....SEPERATE OPS....
run along now!!!

NICDOA
NPJB