US Pilots Labor Discussion 8/25- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[nic4us]

The bottom line is the catastrophic reduction clause.

This clause in the C & Rs calls for furloughs to occur by systemwide DOH in the event of a 25% reduction.

The day of the merger I was a line-holding A-320 captain but in the event of a system-wide furlough I will be gone and a pilot who was furloughed on the day of the merger would have my job.

This, though, is an honorable attempt by USAPPA to be fair and to protect my interests.

If this is not the action of a scab I can't think what is.

The catastrophic reduction clause is just one of a whole laundry list of ways in the C&Rs to slip junior east pilots ahead of more senior West pilots.

However, it is a moot point, as there will be no DOH list and/or accompanying C&Rs.

 

[Freebird]

Show me the receipt please. Copies not accepted.

Its attached to your copy of LOA93.


Usapa = Wheres the NEW contract? $$$

 

[fleetliner]

I guess you guys don't read USAPPA updates, so here is the merger comities' release regarding the DOH list and the C & Rs.

Friday, August 20, 2010 On September 30th, 2008, the Merger Committee presented Management with the US Airways Date of Hire Pilot seniority list along with a comprehensive set of Conditions and Restrictions.


With the dismissal of the Addington case and the associated injunction, the USAPA seniority list and the Conditions and Restrictions have been placed back onto the USAPA website. Your Merger Committee has been working continuously along with other dedicated USAPA representatives to ensure that this day would arrive and will continue to work for the long-term benefit of all US Airways pilots.
As a quick review of the contents of the Conditions and Restrictions, the following is repeated from the Merger Committee update of October 3, 2008:

Creating conditions and restrictions (C and R’s) that will ensure a fair and equitable method to blend our two disparate pilot groups has been no small task. he Merger Committee knows all too well that the seniority issues have been difficult, divisive and contentious for all our pilots. We also understand that without adequate conditions and restrictions, problems would merely shift from one portion of the pilot group to another. With this in mind we have worked extremely hard to create a set of conditions and restrictions that will protect the pre-merger career expectations of the former America West pilots while at the same time moving our pilot group forward with a Date-of-Hire seniority system.


The Conditions and Restrictions are detailed below. There will undoubtedly be questions to the application of the C and Rs. Please check the Q and As on the Merger Committee's page on the USAPA website at www.usairlinepilots.org for answers to your questions. If your question(s) are not answered there, please submit your question to merger@usairlinepilots.org, and we will respond as soon as practical. Many of the questions that we receive and the answers to those questions will be posted on the Merger Committee web page.This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it

DATE OF HIRE CONDITIONS AND RESTRICTIONS

US Airways Seniority Integration

Goals
A fair and equitable seniority integration
Recognition that DOH seniority is a cornerstone in the foundation of our union
Conditions and restrictions principally designed to protect the pre-merger career expectations of the America West
List Construction


The US Airways Integrated Pilot System Seniority List was created from the 1 Jan 2007 certified lists from the two premerger airlines. All pilots hired subsequently have been added in DOH order. There has been no reordering of previous lists. It is our intent that the integrated list with its associated Conditions and Restrictions shall become effective upon contract signing.

West Provisions


We have designated the positions that existed in LAS and PHX as of 1 Jun 2008, prior to the system reductions, as West protected positions. This has the effect of capturing a higher number of positions than actually exist currently. These protected positions are preserved for West pilot bidding and displaced West pilots have recapture rights back to LAS or PHX throughout the term of the Conditions and Restrictions with few exceptions. West protected positions are eliminated if voluntarily vacated. If the number of pilot positions in LAS and PHX increases above the initial protected positions count, any additional new Captain vacancies in LAS and PHX shall be available to East and West pilots on a 1 for 1 basis. The 1 for 1 ratio allows West pilots to capture more upgrades than would be available with an actual West-to-East ratio. Additionally, West attrition is reserved for West pilots.


System-wide DOH bidding is available to West pilots at any time following the contract ratification date and implementation of the Conditions and Restrictions.


West pilots shall be entitled to one-third of the Captain and one-third of the First Officer positions on up to 25 EMB190 aircraft, on a vacancy basis only.


In the event that EMB190 flying replaces current flying in LAS or PHX, EMB190 positions in LAS or PHX will be available to be included in the protected positions. This permits West pilots to remain protected in base, rather than possibly being bumped involuntarily out of base.

East Provisions


East attrition has been preserved for East pilots.

East pilots may bid positions in LAS and PHX as West pilots bid east, and as LAS and PHX flying expands above the 1 June 2008 levels. The addition of a different category of aircraft would be open to a system-wide bid.

Reduction of Flying


Reductions of Captain positions system-wide are shared East and West on a ratio basis. The ratios are established upon contract signing and are aircraft and pay group specific; the ratios will be based on the actual staffing levels that exist at that time. For example, if at contract signing the B-737 ratio is 10 East Captains for every 6 West Captains, then any B-737 Captain position reductions would be allocated using that ratio. The ratios will be readjusted 12 months following contract signing to account for staffing realignment due to work rule changes.

Catastrophic Reduction Clause


In the event of a catastrophic reduction in force of 25% or more of the pilot position count which existed on 1 June 2008, the integrated system seniority list shall govern in all seniority-related matters.

Duration


The Duration of the Conditions and Restrictions shall be 10 years.

Bob Davison
Merger Committee Chairman

 

[nic4us]

This is EXACTLY what I was referring to in my last post, and here we have a pilot who would be exactly in that position.

I challenge any one of you east guys to show me a C&R that you or your union would consider to rectify that. Many of you love to talk about perceived attrition (even though attrition from the right seat of the 320 counts for almost nothing) and perceived career expectations, but conveniently go silent on the subject of any possible future downsizing and actual jobs brought to the table.

As for union reps standing up members at a meeting, if you need a lawyer to talk to your members even off the record, then you are up to something illegal or at least immoral.

"A pilot who would be exactly in that position"?

We have something over 1500 pilots who would be in that position.

The C&Rs are a joke. Nothing more than a metered method of stealing jobs, rather than an all out theft that usapa knows the company would not allow anyway, because of the cost with a system bump and flush.

But, as I said, really does not matter as there will be no DOH list with or without C&Rs.

 

[767jetz]

"A pilot who would be exactly in that position"?

We have something over 1500 pilots who would be in that position.

I think we agree on this.

 

[Freebird]

The Duration of the Conditions and Restrictions shall be 10 years.

Bob Davison
Merger Committee Chairman









Whats this guys seniority number on the Binding Arbitration Award, affectionately known as the NIC?


Usapa = Slip, slidin' away

 

[Freighterguynow]

However, it is a moot point, as there will be no DOH list and/or accompanying C&Rs.

I picture Phx becoming a blowing tumbleweed in a ghost town long before then.

 

[snapthis]

I picture Phx becoming a blowing tumbleweed in a ghost town long before then.

Better lookout for Hurricane Nic headed East!

 

[Freebird]

I picture Phx becoming a blowing tumbleweed in a ghost town long before then.

Good, then I guess you'll have to make room in CLT and PHL. Remember, Usapa represents ALL pilots. And it must represent them fairly or D-F-R.

Stop weaseling out of your agreements and move on. $$$. You're missing the boat.

Your choice. Prolong the low moral, infighting, downtrodden faces back East, crappy lifestyle, low pay, etc. Or keep chasing your tail. You're getting too old for that anyway.

Usapa = Still crazy after all these years.

 

[N924PS]

The Duration of the Conditions and Restrictions shall be 10 years.

Bob Davison
Merger Committee Chairman









Whats this guys seniority number on the Binding Arbitration Award, affectionately known as the NIC?


Usapa = Slip, slidin' away

DOH 6/1/1987
Nic Number (1-1-2007 List) 4052 out of 6520=62%

Current East Number 2279 out of 3494=65.2%

USAPA List Number 2464/5125=48%



West Pilot P0721 DOH 5/18/1987
Nic Number (1-1-2007 List) 1151 out of 6520=17.6%

Current West Number 241 out of 1747=13.7%

USAPA List Number 2446/5125=47.7%

The Nic list has not been corrected for retirements so the % vary slightly.

 

[Freebird]

Pibrat,

I was thinking about your post and the points you brought up in regards to dealing with crew interaction. Namely East vs. West. Hotel lobbies, vans, jumpseat, terminals, webboards and the like.

I'd like to offer this as one theory on the stated behavior. In an earlier post I mentioned that the East has forced the West to defend itself. And this has happened on multiple occasions ever since Usapa was barely elected on property (wish you could change your vote aye? not you Pi). And I will spare you the history at this time.

The point is this; WE don't TRUST you. I thought of an analogy to illustrate my point. Take the religion of Islam. Many of you (Peace-loving East pilots) claim to be peaceful, like most Muslims, yet the radicals among you paint a bad picture for the rest of you. And you pay the price.

The Wahhabists among you have tainted the entire East group. Why is this? Because the peaceful Muslim (day to day pilot) doesn't speak up for himself, for fear of retribution and ridicule.

And because of this, they (you) are forced to live by the Usapa leaderships draconian beliefs. And remain under their control and substandard conditions. As are we out West, albeit not by choice.

Now the moderate peace loving East and West pilots have taken two different paths. The West has chosen to be heard. To protest. To fight for what is right and just. And to Honor our Agreements. Those on the East have chosen to do nothing, as far as we can tell. But what they've really chosen is to NOT have a backbone and not do something about this mess. And like sheep, they have instead chosen to go along in FEAR.

Until your group collectively speaks up/stands up to this leadership who has failed all of us, you will continue down this path of misery and mistrust. Your choice. Pilots are leaders, are you?

So as a member of the radical 'Islamist' union who only supports the East, aka Usapa/Taliban, you are painted by the same brush. Individually you appear friendly. The actions of your group, however, not so much....and tell a different story.

Your leadership can promise 72 Virgins (DOH). But notice, they have failed to deliver and will continue to fail to wield any positive influence because its message is flawed. It's ideology is self-serving and lacks integrity. This is not to say that YOU, the individual pilot supports this. But the message that your 'group' supports and follows is dishonorable. And YOU may be long gone before you see any improvements to YOUR situation.

Misinterpretation may be the cause. Many of the Islamic faith say that the radicals are misinterpreting the meanings of the Koran. In this case, the Koran being the court rulings, alot of 'misinformation' is spread by your leadership. Why? Because it serves them and their dream that the Radical 'Islamist' will rule the day. And all "will be good". It wont. Don't be fooled.

Back on point, the divide is caused by the Actions of the East towards the West. The divide, the mistrust, all stems from the actions of those representing you. This is not to say that we pilots from our side haven't taken it too far on occasion. But, our actions are in defense of the attacks from our lack of "leadership" and representation in our union, Usapa.

This is probably my longest post. I apologize if I missed a few points or skipped around. As I know what I am trying to spell out. Yet I cannot type as fast as I'd like to.


Usapa = Taliban?

 

[traderjake]

The West are having to spend their own time and money to prevent USAPA from taking the seniority they are legally and morally entitled to.

In addition USAPA is using money from West pilots in their attempt to do so.

I think that, except for a handful of exceptions, the West has been very civil under the circumstances.

 

[A320 Driver]

DOH 6/1/1987
Nic Number (1-1-2007 List) 4052 out of 6520=62%

Current East Number 2279 out of 3494=65.2%

USAPA List Number 2464/5125=48%



West Pilot P0721 DOH 5/18/1987
Nic Number (1-1-2007 List) 1151 out of 6520=37%

Current West Number 241 out of 1747=13.7%

USAPA List Number 2446/5125=47.7%

The Nic list has not been corrected for retirements so the % vary slightly.

Let's at least get the math right...

West Pilot P0721 DOH 5/18/1987
Nic Number (1-1-2007 List) 1151 out of 6520=37% Try 17.6%

Now let's adjust it for the 517 slots that Nic said he wasn't entitled to:
1151 - 517 = 634, 6520 - 517 = 6003

634/6003 = 10.6%

13.7% to 10.6%... Looks like things are looking up for this boy...according to NIC. To be fair: USAPA...not so good.

Driver B)

 

[nycbusdriver]

Usapa = Still crazy after all these years.

Yes. All these years.

What? Two?

Unsurprisingly insightful tagline.

 

[traderjake]

Now let's adjust it for the 517 slots that Nic said he wasn't entitled to:
1151 - 517 = 634, 6520 - 517 = 6003

634/6003 = 10.6%

13.7% to 10.6%... Looks like things are looking up for this boy...according to NIC. To be fair: USAPA...not so good.

Driver B)

Pure USAPA spin.

Only in the mind of a USAPA suppporter does putting 517 East pilots at the top of the list make a West pilot more senior.