The catastrophic reduction clause is just one of a whole laundry list of ways in the C&Rs to slip junior east pilots ahead of more senior West pilots.
However, it is a moot point, as there will be no DOH list and/or accompanying C&Rs.
US Pilots Labor Discussion 8/25- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES
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The catastrophic reduction clause is just one of a whole laundry list of ways in the C&Rs to slip junior east pilots ahead of more senior West pilots.
However, it is a moot point, as there will be no DOH list and/or accompanying C&Rs.
Freebird
Veteran
fleetliner
Newbie
- Aug 25, 2010
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I guess you guys don't read USAPPA updates, so here is the merger comities' release regarding the DOH list and the C & Rs.
"A pilot who would be exactly in that position"?
We have something over 1500 pilots who would be in that position.
The C&Rs are a joke. Nothing more than a metered method of stealing jobs, rather than an all out theft that usapa knows the company would not allow anyway, because of the cost with a system bump and flush.
But, as I said, really does not matter as there will be no DOH list with or without C&Rs.
767jetz
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 3,286
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I think we agree on this.
Freebird
Veteran
The Duration of the Conditions and Restrictions shall be 10 years.
Bob Davison
Merger Committee Chairman
Whats this guys seniority number on the Binding Arbitration Award, affectionately known as the NIC?
Usapa = Slip, slidin' away
Bob Davison
Merger Committee Chairman
Whats this guys seniority number on the Binding Arbitration Award, affectionately known as the NIC?
Usapa = Slip, slidin' away
Freighterguynow
Veteran
- Jan 5, 2004
- 1,276
- 1,207
I picture Phx becoming a blowing tumbleweed in a ghost town long before then.
snapthis
Veteran
- Dec 23, 2009
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Better lookout for Hurricane Nic headed East!
Freebird
Veteran
Good, then I guess you'll have to make room in CLT and PHL. Remember, Usapa represents ALL pilots. And it must represent them fairly or D-F-R.
Stop weaseling out of your agreements and move on. $$$. You're missing the boat.
Your choice. Prolong the low moral, infighting, downtrodden faces back East, crappy lifestyle, low pay, etc. Or keep chasing your tail. You're getting too old for that anyway.
Usapa = Still crazy after all these years.
N924PS
Veteran
- May 9, 2004
- 2,036
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DOH 6/1/1987
Nic Number (1-1-2007 List) 4052 out of 6520=62%
Current East Number 2279 out of 3494=65.2%
USAPA List Number 2464/5125=48%
West Pilot P0721 DOH 5/18/1987
Nic Number (1-1-2007 List) 1151 out of 6520=17.6%
Current West Number 241 out of 1747=13.7%
USAPA List Number 2446/5125=47.7%
The Nic list has not been corrected for retirements so the % vary slightly.
Freebird
Veteran
Pibrat,
I was thinking about your post and the points you brought up in regards to dealing with crew interaction. Namely East vs. West. Hotel lobbies, vans, jumpseat, terminals, webboards and the like.
I'd like to offer this as one theory on the stated behavior. In an earlier post I mentioned that the East has forced the West to defend itself. And this has happened on multiple occasions ever since Usapa was barely elected on property (wish you could change your vote aye? not you Pi). And I will spare you the history at this time.
The point is this; WE don't TRUST you. I thought of an analogy to illustrate my point. Take the religion of Islam. Many of you (Peace-loving East pilots) claim to be peaceful, like most Muslims, yet the radicals among you paint a bad picture for the rest of you. And you pay the price.
The Wahhabists among you have tainted the entire East group. Why is this? Because the peaceful Muslim (day to day pilot) doesn't speak up for himself, for fear of retribution and ridicule.
And because of this, they (you) are forced to live by the Usapa leaderships draconian beliefs. And remain under their control and substandard conditions. As are we out West, albeit not by choice.
Now the moderate peace loving East and West pilots have taken two different paths. The West has chosen to be heard. To protest. To fight for what is right and just. And to Honor our Agreements. Those on the East have chosen to do nothing, as far as we can tell. But what they've really chosen is to NOT have a backbone and not do something about this mess. And like sheep, they have instead chosen to go along in FEAR.
Until your group collectively speaks up/stands up to this leadership who has failed all of us, you will continue down this path of misery and mistrust. Your choice. Pilots are leaders, are you?
So as a member of the radical 'Islamist' union who only supports the East, aka Usapa/Taliban, you are painted by the same brush. Individually you appear friendly. The actions of your group, however, not so much....and tell a different story.
Your leadership can promise 72 Virgins (DOH). But notice, they have failed to deliver and will continue to fail to wield any positive influence because its message is flawed. It's ideology is self-serving and lacks integrity. This is not to say that YOU, the individual pilot supports this. But the message that your 'group' supports and follows is dishonorable. And YOU may be long gone before you see any improvements to YOUR situation.
Misinterpretation may be the cause. Many of the Islamic faith say that the radicals are misinterpreting the meanings of the Koran. In this case, the Koran being the court rulings, alot of 'misinformation' is spread by your leadership. Why? Because it serves them and their dream that the Radical 'Islamist' will rule the day. And all "will be good". It wont. Don't be fooled.
Back on point, the divide is caused by the Actions of the East towards the West. The divide, the mistrust, all stems from the actions of those representing you. This is not to say that we pilots from our side haven't taken it too far on occasion. But, our actions are in defense of the attacks from our lack of "leadership" and representation in our union, Usapa.
This is probably my longest post. I apologize if I missed a few points or skipped around. As I know what I am trying to spell out. Yet I cannot type as fast as I'd like to.
Usapa = Taliban?
I was thinking about your post and the points you brought up in regards to dealing with crew interaction. Namely East vs. West. Hotel lobbies, vans, jumpseat, terminals, webboards and the like.
I'd like to offer this as one theory on the stated behavior. In an earlier post I mentioned that the East has forced the West to defend itself. And this has happened on multiple occasions ever since Usapa was barely elected on property (wish you could change your vote aye? not you Pi). And I will spare you the history at this time.
The point is this; WE don't TRUST you. I thought of an analogy to illustrate my point. Take the religion of Islam. Many of you (Peace-loving East pilots) claim to be peaceful, like most Muslims, yet the radicals among you paint a bad picture for the rest of you. And you pay the price.
The Wahhabists among you have tainted the entire East group. Why is this? Because the peaceful Muslim (day to day pilot) doesn't speak up for himself, for fear of retribution and ridicule.
And because of this, they (you) are forced to live by the Usapa leaderships draconian beliefs. And remain under their control and substandard conditions. As are we out West, albeit not by choice.
Now the moderate peace loving East and West pilots have taken two different paths. The West has chosen to be heard. To protest. To fight for what is right and just. And to Honor our Agreements. Those on the East have chosen to do nothing, as far as we can tell. But what they've really chosen is to NOT have a backbone and not do something about this mess. And like sheep, they have instead chosen to go along in FEAR.
Until your group collectively speaks up/stands up to this leadership who has failed all of us, you will continue down this path of misery and mistrust. Your choice. Pilots are leaders, are you?
So as a member of the radical 'Islamist' union who only supports the East, aka Usapa/Taliban, you are painted by the same brush. Individually you appear friendly. The actions of your group, however, not so much....and tell a different story.
Your leadership can promise 72 Virgins (DOH). But notice, they have failed to deliver and will continue to fail to wield any positive influence because its message is flawed. It's ideology is self-serving and lacks integrity. This is not to say that YOU, the individual pilot supports this. But the message that your 'group' supports and follows is dishonorable. And YOU may be long gone before you see any improvements to YOUR situation.
Misinterpretation may be the cause. Many of the Islamic faith say that the radicals are misinterpreting the meanings of the Koran. In this case, the Koran being the court rulings, alot of 'misinformation' is spread by your leadership. Why? Because it serves them and their dream that the Radical 'Islamist' will rule the day. And all "will be good". It wont. Don't be fooled.
Back on point, the divide is caused by the Actions of the East towards the West. The divide, the mistrust, all stems from the actions of those representing you. This is not to say that we pilots from our side haven't taken it too far on occasion. But, our actions are in defense of the attacks from our lack of "leadership" and representation in our union, Usapa.
This is probably my longest post. I apologize if I missed a few points or skipped around. As I know what I am trying to spell out. Yet I cannot type as fast as I'd like to.
Usapa = Taliban?
traderjake
Veteran
- Aug 30, 2002
- 5,669
- 9,308
The West are having to spend their own time and money to prevent USAPA from taking the seniority they are legally and morally entitled to.
In addition USAPA is using money from West pilots in their attempt to do so.
I think that, except for a handful of exceptions, the West has been very civil under the circumstances.
In addition USAPA is using money from West pilots in their attempt to do so.
I think that, except for a handful of exceptions, the West has been very civil under the circumstances.
A320 Driver
Veteran
- Aug 24, 2002
- 3,358
- 2,319
Let's at least get the math right...
West Pilot P0721 DOH 5/18/1987
Nic Number (1-1-2007 List) 1151 out of 6520=37% Try 17.6%
Now let's adjust it for the 517 slots that Nic said he wasn't entitled to:
1151 - 517 = 634, 6520 - 517 = 6003
634/6003 = 10.6%
13.7% to 10.6%... Looks like things are looking up for this boy...according to NIC. To be fair: USAPA...not so good.
Driver B)
nycbusdriver
Veteran
traderjake
Veteran
- Aug 30, 2002
- 5,669
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Pure USAPA spin.
Only in the mind of a USAPA suppporter does putting 517 East pilots at the top of the list make a West pilot more senior.
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