US Pilots Labor Discussion 8/25- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[notsofast]

The east brought a soon to be liquidated airline with 1800 pilots on furlough to the merger. Trust me, we didn't want it then and we don't want it now.

You get to keep the jobs you brought, what is wrong with that.

The C & R routes for West.

 

[Freebird]

Bottom line the West pilots want what the East brought to the merger. The West will be guaranteed in the conditions and restrictions that the East pilots are offering the West pilots to keep what they brought to the merger.

The West pilots then realize they do not want what they brought because it is nothing.

Read the C&R's and you will see who wants what. Any growth in PHX goes 1:1 East and West. Try again, Francis.

You are so misled in your thinking. My guess is that you have recently come back from furlough and hope to slip into a Captain seat. Then you can brag to your friends at the commuter that you are a Captain. And did so without being an FO for more than 2 years before getting furloughed for the next 8. We know YOUR intentions. But keep running in circles, its very amusing.

Can you say DFR?

“Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live.”

Oscar Wilde



Usapa = Still wasting your time and dues money. Seham "Thanks You". h34r:

 

[notsofast]

Read the C&R's and you will see who wants what. Any growth in PHX goes 1:1 East and West. Try again, Francis.

You are so misled in your thinking. My guess is that you have recently come back from furlough and hope to slip into a Captain seat. Then you can brag to your friends at the commuter that you are a Captain. And did so without being an FO for more than 2 years before getting furloughed for the next 8. We know YOUR intentions. But keep running in circles, its very amusing.

Can you say DFR?

Phoenix, Growth? The only airline that will grow in Phoenix is Southwest.

The West said DFR and it cost them 2 million dollars.

 

[Freebird]

Phoenix, Growth? The only airline that will grow in Phoenix is Southwest.

The West said DFR and it cost them 2 million dollars.

Is that all you've got? Really?

Usapa is attempting to steal any growth in PHX. Not surprising as they are all about the East.

Read the Nic Award and learn from it.

Read the 9th's decison. Then read between the lines. The case wasnt RIPE....YET. Just wait. Keep pressing that DOH. BTW, next time youre kissing Clearys ring, ask him when it will all "go down".

Cleary is too busy trying to stop a recall by his own pilots.

Dont worry about the funding back West. 2 million is a drop in the bucket compared to the money you are losing under LOA93. Wont get those years back boys. Age 65 is near, tick-tock, tick-tock....

Usapa = Taking the 'downtrodden' for a ride....buckle up !!!

 

[Freebird]

You get to keep the jobs you brought, what is wrong with that.

The C & R routes for West.

How about we keep the routes we BOUGHT?

You keep the job you BROUGHT. Furloughed? Reserve AFO? Which one?

Usapa = BOHICA

 

[notsofast]

How about we keep the routes we BOUGHT?

Show me the receipt please. Copies not accepted.

 

[nic4us]

Bottom line the West pilots want what the East brought to the merger. The West will be guaranteed in the conditions and restrictions that the East pilots are offering the West pilots to keep what they brought to the merger. The West pilots then realize they do not want what they brought because it is nothing.

Very telling of the usual usapa BS line of reasoning.

You are saying, that it is your determination that the West brought nothing, and that the C&Rs will protect that nothing.

The reality of the merger is off limits for discusion on this board. However, I will say that the arbitration panel determined what the West brought to the merger was considerably more than nothing. Also, it is my opinion, that, as fair as it is, it is the east pilots absolute lack of respect toward the West pilots that got you folks the Nic, and virtually guarantee its eventual implementation.

The actual bottom line is that there will be no C&Rs. There will be no DOH seniority list. The only path forward for a combined AAA/AWA pilot group includes an unmodified, unaltered, unrestricted, Nic inclusive contract.

PS. The company is about to get schooled on the same conclusion. Whether or not they decide it is in their best interest to move toward a combined pilot group will be up to them. But, if they want us combined, it will be under the terms of the Nic.

 

[nic4us]

Show me the receipt please. Copies not accepted.

Why? The company is trying to repair the broken merchandise, not return it.

 

[cleardirect]

Maybe the pending DFR suit is the very reason they were advised not to attend. I suspect (really, I am certain, but I will play nice and just say "suspect") that they would have been subject to a lot of angry invective and verbal abuse. Case in point: When one of your west pilots has the temerity to turn to the vice president of the company and seethe: "We HATE you guys" in front of a room full of colleagues while being videotaped, one can only imagine what might be in store for two USAPA officers.

That being said, with a pending DFR suit and no attorney present to filter their comments, it is wise, I think, to take a pass rather than be browbeaten into saying something that could be used later against the union.

What pending DFR law suit? Have you guys not told us that usapa won Addington and that it is over? Have you not told us that we have no chance to even file the next one because we have not paid for the first one. Have you not told us that we have no chance because majority rules?

Why worry about something that you told us was not going to happen?

I am amazed how you east boys can justify any action in your own minds. Since when does a union need to “filter” comments to the pilots they are suppose to represent through a lawyer? Not even ALPA did that. Now I have to ask. If you are doing something that you think will get you sued why would you continue doing it?

Now you justify officers not coming to a domicile because they may be browbeaten. Well then I guess they should just stay where it is safe and ignore any contrary positions. Where have I heard that before? Oh I know when you guys complained about CLT not holding a meeting because there was going to be a recall. USAPA worse than ALPA.

BTW east officers have come to PHX before without the armed escort and have had no trouble.

 

[fleetliner]

The bottom line is the catastrophic reduction clause.

This clause in the C & Rs calls for furloughs to occur by systemwide DOH in the event of a 25% reduction.

The day of the merger I was a line-holding A-320 captain but in the event of a system-wide furlough I will be gone and a pilot who was furloughed on the day of the merger would have my job.

This, though, is an honorable attempt by USAPPA to be fair and to protect my interests.

If this is not the action of a scab I can't think what is.

 

[notsofast]

The bottom line is the catastrophic reduction clause.

This clause in the C & Rs calls for furloughs to occur by systemwide DOH in the event of a 25% reduction.

The day of the merger I was a line-holding A-320 captain but in the event of a system-wide furlough I will be gone and a pilot who was furloughed on the day of the merger would have my job.

This, though, is an honorable attempt by USAPPA to be fair and to protect my interests.

If this is not the action of a scab I can't think what is.

What would happen in such a case to every other work group USAirways has, besides the pilots?

 

[767jetz]

The bottom line is the catastrophic reduction clause.

This clause in the C & Rs calls for furloughs to occur by systemwide DOH in the event of a 25% reduction.

The day of the merger I was a line-holding A-320 captain but in the event of a system-wide furlough I will be gone and a pilot who was furloughed on the day of the merger would have my job.

This, though, is an honorable attempt by USAPPA to be fair and to protect my interests.

If this is not the action of a scab I can't think what is.

This is EXACTLY what I was referring to in my last post, and here we have a pilot who would be exactly in that position.

I challenge any one of you east guys to show me a C&R that you or your union would consider to rectify that. Many of you love to talk about perceived attrition (even though attrition from the right seat of the 320 counts for almost nothing) and perceived career expectations, but conveniently go silent on the subject of any possible future downsizing and actual jobs brought to the table.

As for union reps standing up members at a meeting, if you need a lawyer to talk to your members even off the record, then you are up to something illegal or at least immoral.

 

[fatherabraham]

The bottom line is the catastrophic reduction clause.

This clause in the C & Rs calls for furloughs to occur by systemwide DOH in the event of a 25% reduction.

The day of the merger I was a line-holding A-320 captain but in the event of a system-wide furlough I will be gone and a pilot who was furloughed on the day of the merger would have my job.

This, though, is an honorable attempt by USAPPA to be fair and to protect my interests.

If this is not the action of a scab I can't think what is.

fleetliner,
Welcome to the board.
I'm not knowledgeable about this 25% issue, but at first glance your above scenario seems wrong.
i will inquire on the 8th when i have the opportunity to get first hand info about c&r thoughts going forward in todays current negotiations.
My opinion to leadership will say in effect " any future furloughs should happen in direct % to reductions on east or west, and let market profitability rule in decision as it always has in past in direct % relationship to relative seniority on merge day with your particular list"

Whew....hope i get it out better firsthand

FA

 

[767jetz]

What would happen in such a case to every other work group USAirways has, besides the pilots?

Completely irrelevant.

By the way, answering a question with another question, especially an irrelevant one, is a convenient tactic to redirect and avoid accountability. Why not just answer the question in a straightforward manner so you can be judged by your actual words.

 

[Freebird]

What would happen in such a case to every other work group USAirways has, besides the pilots?

Add the ALPA contract to your reading list. I'll save you time, No DOH in Merger Policy.

Then read the contracts of other work groups on property. They included DOH and the members of each group expected that from the beginning.

The East pilots demanded DOH. Every step. And they were built up on Expectations of leap-frogging active pilots. Arbitration entailed, Binding Arbitration, entered freely by your group. Read the Award. But take your Usapa blinders off first. You know, the ones that have DOH and $ signs etched in the lens.

Usapa = Now what?