US Pilots Labor Discussion 8/25- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[luvn737s]

You told me to look in the mirror. I do ever day and when I do I see someone that long ago accepted the process, but will always question it's fairness. I see someone that has never treated a west pilot poorly, ever. I see a guy that joined a union he didn't vote for, with the main purpose of having a voice in case it ran a muck. I see guy that fought for the C18, even while taking gabs from a few of them. I see a guy that separated the individual from the group until they show me they have the same actions as the group. I see a guy that although he doesn't care for the top few leaders of USAPA, is trying to work with them to make a union for all US Airways pilots.

How many of you can say that you do those things?

I think just about all the west pilots can say those things apply to them. And they do it while being disenfranchised by the union whose financial support is a prerequisite for their employment.

Are you a lone example in the east of these principles? How can 3500 pilots continue to allow their union to pick a side in this integration and try to bankrupt their fellow pilots who are only trying to enforce a deal that was agreed to before the award was handed down, yet they are "all great guys"?

These great guys need to pick a new leader (or new union) who will not pick sides, but simply implemement what a neutral panel handed down and then move on for the good of all US pilots. USAirways is not the old USAir with a bunch of AWA guys grafted in. It is a new airline composed of 2 groups equal in capability, if not in number, that better figure out how to work together.

 

[nycbusdriver]

BTW, a little birdy told me a Cleary recall effort is in the works. Stay tuned.

Give it your best shot. Really.

If fact, if you think that's the thing to do, why did a little birdy have to tell you someone else is doing it? Why not just start it yourself? Unless, of course, you are not a member in good standing. In which case, you have no real input anyway. At least, no more than a little birdy has.

 

[notsofast]

I think just about all the west pilots can say those things apply to them. And they do it while being disenfranchised by the union whose financial support is a prerequisite for their employment.

Are you a lone example in the east of these principles? How can 3500 pilots continue to allow their union to pick a side in this integration and try to bankrupt their fellow pilots who are only trying to enforce a deal that was agreed to before the award was handed down, yet they are "all great guys"?

These great guys need to pick a new leader (or new union) who will not pick sides, but simply implemement what a neutral panel handed down and then move on for the good of all US pilots. USAirways is not the old USAir with a bunch of AWA guys grafted in. It is a new airline composed of 2 groups equal in capability, if not in number, that better figure out how to work together.

Bottom line the West pilots want what the East brought to the merger. The West will be guaranteed in the conditions and restrictions that the East pilots are offering the West pilots to keep what they brought to the merger. The West pilots then realize they do not want what they brought because it is nothing.

 

[767jetz]

I hate to see what happens when someone cuts in front of you in the supermarket! So one can infer from your admission of loathing for USAirways pilots, that all your opinions in this labor forum are definitely going to be colored.And colored in favor of west pilots.

You can infer whatever you want. I call 'em like I see 'em.

 

[boeingplt]

BTW, a little birdy told me a Cleary recall effort is in the works. Stay tuned.

Good luck with that. You guys have zero idea about the level of support Cleary has. Take your best shot. It will be nothing more than sport for us.

 

[Pi brat]

I think just about all the west pilots can say those things apply to them.

I don't think so. How many west pilots joined the legally elected USAPA and freely paid their required dues before MS. Suzie lost here battle? I'll save you the time-very few, and I have seen internet claims from west guys that some are still not paying, again as required as a condition of employment. But hey, it's okay to pick and choose what you want to abide by,right? Oh wait, that would apply to binding arbitration, that can't be right..................

 

[Pi brat]

then I will apologize for the harsh words.

Thank you, apology accepted. I've had a hard time figuring out how a general comment about human nature would offend you, but I accept that it did and apologize too.

 

[Pi brat]

dupe

 

[exB717Flyer]

Good luck with that. You guys have zero idea about the level of support Cleary has. Take your best shot. It will be nothing more than sport for us.

Thanks for the wish for luck. With our 1000 and several hundred Easties (Ciabbatoni followers, perhaps) getting the 50%+1 to call for a recall ballot is definitely a possibility. Our base reps say Dear Leader Cleary's personal vendettas are impeding regular business. It wasn't long ago that our lawyers were grateful for Cleary's stupidity but now his incompetence outweighs any advantage we get from him being in office.

 

[boeingplt]

Thanks for the wish for luck. With our 1000 and several hundred Easties (Ciabbatoni followers, perhaps) getting the 50%+1 to call for a recall ballot is definitely a possibility. Our base reps say Dear Leader Cleary's personal vendettas are impeding regular business. It wasn't long ago that our lawyers were grateful for Cleary's stupidity but now his incompetence outweighs any advantage we get from him being in office.

You are speculating. First the ballot is easier than your deeply researched statement of 50% + 1. It is 25%. Second you are dreaming if you think you will get more than 125 or so east pilots on your side. CM 's mouth only makes it seem like more.

 

[exB717Flyer]

Second you are dreaming if you think you will get more than 125 or so east pilots on your side.

More than 125 Easties voted for ALPA during the representational election. I'm going to save this post for later review. Perhaps then you'll find my "dream" prophetic.

 

[Ames]

Read the posts previous to the last page and you will realize who is being referred to. If you get your information from one source, ie: last forum page or last AOL update, you will be deficient in the information you need for a cognoscente post.

Thanks, that really clears things up.....?

 

[Ames]

Bottom line the West pilots want what the East brought to the merger.

The east brought a soon to be liquidated airline with 1800 pilots on furlough to the merger. Trust me, we didn't want it then and we don't want it now.

 

[767jetz]

Bottom line the West pilots want what the East brought to the merger.

Your thinking is flawed and only a person in your position could possibly be blind to it.

Why on earth would the west want all those junior 17 year furlough positions? Why would anyone want to be furlough fodder to someone without a job, in the next round of downsizing whenever that happens?

For the unpteen millionth time, the west wants to keep the seniority they had before the merger. They want the east to keep the lack of seniority they had. They want to share in the merger opportunities going forward that the east seems to think belongs only to them. They want the east to honor the agreements they made going into the merger.

It is so clearly obvious to even a casual observer, that I refuse to believe you do not see it. Regardless of widebody flying and attrition, you will not even acknowledge the unfairness (or windfall if you will) that DOH with C&R's would create in the next downturn when west pilots (f/o's and captains) who had a job are put on the street in favor of your pilots who were junior and furloughed before the merger. Which leads me to my opinion that it is all a smoke screen full of justifications to hide your real motivation of stealing job security from the west as a result of this merger when you had very little before.

Prove me wrong. Show me any evidence that one of the C&R's USAPA is considering is to put furlough protection in for anyone with a job at the time of the merger, so that those who were furloughed before would be the first to be furloughed in the future (adjusted for attrition of course.) And I'm talking about in the actual seniority list, not the contract where it can be negotiated away in the future. That might at least convince some people that it's not just all about you, you, you.

 

[767jetz]

Thank you, apology accepted. I've had a hard time figuring out how a general comment about human nature would offend you, but I accept that it did and apologize too.

Thanks for at least spending the time trying to figure it out. Apology accepted here too.

Now back to the debate...