US Pilots Labor Discussion-8/12 to 8/19--NO PERSONAL REMARKS

[HPDriver]

What a blog has to say is of little consequence. The 9th Circuit will render a verdict that could be appealed to SCOTUS and we go from there. Everything else is amusing reading.

"We?"

Who is "we" Piney?

You a pilot now?

 

[UtterlyUdder]

"We?"

Who is "we" Piney?

You a pilot now?

You Westies are such sticklers on semantics now? Piney used a figure of speech.
So many of your posts are irrelevant to the discussion. Piney is right far more often than you are.

You should be out ginning up funds to appeal to SCOTUS. <_<

 

[prechilill]

So Snoop, were is the by line.

This reads like someone who knows very little about the case, as there are huge errors in their arguement. Was this written by someone at SSM$P?

First, this paragraph about ALPA merger policy leaves a gaping whole as it fails to mention that the TA specifically states that seniority integrtation will be by ALPA merger policy. USAPA inherits the TA, as stated in other paragraphs , yet they do not inherit contrractual obligation to the TA,( for example-seniority integration will be by ALPA merger policy) what gives?

Then again the author misses the mark when they say USAPA is the successor to ALPA's collective bargaining agreement, and can negotiate any and all terms of that agreement. Does the author understand that USAPA is free to negotiate any and all terms of the agreement, just not in an illegal manner as to cause discriminitory harm to a minority group for illigitimate reasons? Less they will lose a DFR case, and yes that has already happened.

What Snoop posted was commentary from a person who is NOT a labor attorney with a good reputation- just another person with an opinion, an axe and a sharpening stone. Their is no case law presented which supports the presented opinion.

 

[HPDriver]

You should be out ginning up funds to appeal to SCOTUS. <_<

One pipe dream after another and you just keep eating it up.

 

[Tiger 1050]

Ah, yes, Babtiste and Wilder...Remember when the AAA MEC had him sue the AWA MEC? How'd that ill-advised suit work out?

I thought I remembered that firm name form somewhere!

Mega's post = discredited

 

[ROACLT]

I thought I remembered that firm name form somewhere!

Mega's post = discredited

They were retained by ALPA and their past pilot work has been on behalf of ALPA.

 

[Waketurbulence]

Had the Addington appellees opposed the expediting of the case I might have agreed with your theory. However they didn't and therefore I don't see any evidence that momentum has changed or even exists. It is what it is and we will see what happens in December and when a decision is released.

Awe, cut megasnop a break.

He's grasping at straws, and when that's all you have left....well.

 

[HPDriver]

Thanks to the court, however, an erroneous arbitration award, based on an erroneous record on the subject of America West’s future, is set in stone.

"...is set in stone"

(echo)
is set in stone, is set in stone, is set in stone, is set in stone, is set in stone, is set in stone, is set in stone, is set in stone...

 

[nic4us]

It ended as moot after ALPA lost the property, a mere 9 months after it was filed. No telling how it would have ended if ALPA won the election. Don't go bringing that up unless your prepared to hear about how your own merger attorney viewed the NIC Award in that suit:

Thus, the “arbitration award†Plaintiffs purportedly seek to “vacate†is in actuality the proposed pilot seniority list developed through ALPA’s Merger policy that ALPA will adopt as its bargaining position to be presented to the Company, but which (like a union bargaining position in any matter) the Company is not required to accept. Plaintiff’s Application to “vacate†an “arbitration award†that does not establish any enforceable seniority rights in a collective bargaining agreement with the Company, but which merely sets out ALPA’s bargaining position to be presented to the company.

Snoop,

As I understand it there are 2 reasons a court will overturn an arbitration.

1. Something illegal happened...i.e. bribe, extortion,conflict of interest etc.. not the case here.

2. Award is so far outside the bounds of what is common practices, that it calls for intervention.

When the AAA Mec sued the AWA mec, they were going for #2. They stood absolutely no chance of winning that case. Why might you ask? Because the Nicolau award is well within the bounderies of industry practice, has numerous other examples of similar conclusions, and is in most basic terms fair.

The AAA Mecs whole arguement was that Nic put relative new hires ( on probation) above veterans of up to 17 years. It made no reference as to why this happened, only claiming this was outside the bounds of common practice. Well, again, that is a losing arguement as soon as you simply read the Nic and understand why it happened. Understand that it has happened before, and is well within industry common practice.

You qoute Freund out of context again. Have you read the quote you posted? It says "the company is not required to accept", yet the company did accept the Nic. When they did what Freund was talking about was over, as was seniority negotiations. All that was left was implementation. Fruend had a few things to say about that also, as he notified both USAPA and the company that if they deviated from the Nic the West was suing both and would have grounds to do so. Apparently he was correct.

Little extra tidbit. Know why the company accepted the list? Because it met the requirements as set forth by the TA(which were also simple industry standard practices), to which the company and ALPA ( now USAPA) were contractual bound.

 

[Hate2fly]

LENGTHY POST QUOTE REMOVED BY MODERATOR--NO NEED TO REPEAT.
Hey Mega,

Check this out! Here is what a Federal Judge had to say that backs up Freund's claim that the Nic award was just a proposed list.

https://ecf.dcd.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/show_p...c?2007cv1309-18





UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA

Civ. Action No. 07-1309 (EGS)

MEMORANDUM OPINION



I. Background

"ALPA maintains an internal policy known as the “Merger and Fragmentation Policyâ€￾ of ALPA (“ALPA Merger Policyâ€￾) to deal with the labor-relations effect of a merger transaction between two" airlines, including the effect of separate groups of pilots combining into one. Id. at 3. Pilots at all ALPA-represented airlines maintain seniority lists, which record the pilots in order of their date of hire for purposes of bidding for promotions and work schedules, as well as other terms of employment. Id. The merger of an airline necessitates the integration of the pilot seniority lists for the separate airlines. Id. Under the ALPA Merger Policy, the MECs representing the two pilot groups first meet in an effort to negotiate a proposed integrated seniority list. See Defs. Opp’n 3-4.

If direct negotiations between the merger committees fail, the parties select a neutral person to mediate the negotiations. See Pls. Mot 3. If mediation subsequently proves unsuccessful, the parties then participate in an arbitration proceeding before a Board of Arbitration consisting of three persons: the neutral mediator and two neutral pilots. Ultimately, the ALPA Merger Policy generates a proposed seniority list, which ALPA promises to present to the merged airlines in an effort to persuade the merged airlines to adopt the list. See Defs. Opp’n 3-4." .........



Signed: Emmet G. Sullivan

United States District Judge

November 30, 2007

 

[HPDriver]

Hey, maybe Piney has finally figured out, right or wrong, why the East is not happy!!
Ya think!!

The east pilots, as they've admitted themselves, have not been happy for a very long, long time.

 

[hp_fa]

Hey, maybe Piney has finally figured out, right or wrong, why the East is not happy!!
Ya think!!

It is my opinion that the East was unhappy long before the AWA merger. Two runs through the BK court and management distrust explains part of that.

It is my opinion that the East became more unhappy after the Nicolau Award.

It is my opinion that the East unhappiness led to anger and that led to the dark side, where anger fueled the election for USAPA.

It is my opinion that SSM&P took full advantage of that anger to obtain employment and has taken further advantage to try and ensure future employment within the labor law field by staking out positions that have the potential of rewriting and redefining some aspects of labor law. USAPA is paying for this venture that can significantly benefit SSM&P in the future and generate income now.

It is my opinion that unless and until US Airways pilots, regardless of their positions on the issues that divide them, become active within their union and take ownership of the problems that confront them will, as a group, remain unhappy.

 

[exB717Flyer]

Since no lawyer paid by ALPA ever works for a specific MEC, your right, he did work for ALPA and Woerth. And NO, he was not the attorney for the TWA MEC. He was ALPA's counsel, hired with ALPA's approval and paid for by ALPA. Sorry, former TWA-guy, but that's the way it works.

No, it is I who must apologize since it's so easy to prove you wrong. The AWA MEC expressly hired and paid for our counsel. I'm sure you've forgotten one of our Merger Committee members was a fellow TWA furloughee. In fact, it was his warnings to our MEC about not repeating the mistakes the TWA MEC made that got him appointed to that committee.

 

[HPDriver]

Wow, looks like this really hit a nerve.

Ouch there Mega!! You sure did!

Quoting a firm that talks out of both sides of their mouth really hurt.


Firms can sense billable hours like sharks can sense blood. With the way USAPA is chumming the water with all that money, you're bound to see these guys start to line up for a crack at the dues money and they'll say whatever they can to get to the front of the frenzy.

 

[HPDriver]

No, it is I who must apologize since it's so easy to prove you wrong. The AWA MEC expressly hired and paid for our counsel. I'm sure you've forgotten one of our Merger Committee members was a fellow TWA furloughee. In fact, it was his warnings to our MEC about not repeating the mistakes the TWA MEC made that got him appointed to that committee.

And I just spoke with him a few days ago. He still takes time to keep up on the goings-on out here.