US Pilots Labor Discussion 7/13- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[cleardirect]

You need to take your Captains off their pedestal. They are merely pilots in the employ of the company just like your First Officers. Only difference is they have been here longer (i.e.; they have more LOS). So yes, if the West Captain has less LOS than a formerly furloughed East pilot he would/should be furloughed first.

Having said that, and because of the unique demographics between our two gropus, C&R's should be constructed to prevent this type of scenario, and others, in order to protect the West without inflicting the harm to the East that the NIC imposed.

I guess what you ignore is that if a single west captain is furloughed before an east pilot that WAS on furlough. That means that each and every west F/O would be furloughed also.

So please save it and the pretense that the east does not want every west FO gone so that you guys can take our positions and upgrade. Only after every east F/O has upgraded do you want to allow the west any benefit from this merger.

It is all about taking from the west to make up for your poor career choice.

You had better correct that statement. The ninth found this case not ripe so there is no harm from the Nicolau. Just like the judge in the MDA case is going to find.

The only harm so far is that which the east has caused by the delay in getting a better contract.

 

[luvn737s]

without inflicting the harm to the East that the NIC imposed.

Where was the harm to the east in the Nic? Yes it had the POTENTIAL to harm some, but it did not in and of itself harm any east pilot. However, the 9th felt that INTENT to DFR the west wasn't worthy of an injunction to prevent real, quantifyable harm to the west that would come from a DOH list.

Interesting double standard.

 

[RSVP767]

Would that be the same pedestal you put yourself and your furloughed pilots on?

Funny thing is, according to your own words above, you are no more of a pilot that any of the west pilots, AND you admit that the west pilots are in the employ of the company, unlike your furloughed pilots who were in the unemployment line.

Thanks for admitting the truth.

No, no pedestals here 'jetz'. But you're right.......we're all equal, and we can boil it all down to one common denominator....LOS. That is something we all have equally.......a year for a year (no dog years here!). And for your edification, by length of service I mean ACTIVE years of service.....any year a pilot was in the employ of the company. Sadly, furlough time is excluded.

Sorry you can't handle the truth.

Good greif! Now go spend some time with your kids.

 

[RSVP767]

Where was the harm to the east in the Nic? Yes it had the POTENTIAL to harm some, but it did not in and of itself harm any east pilot. However, the 9th felt that INTENT to DFR the west wasn't worthy of an injunction to prevent real, quantifyable harm to the west that would come from a DOH list.

Interesting double standard.

You're right 'luvn' I stand corrected.

I meant to say 'the harm to the East that the NIC would impose'......as in POTENTIAL harm. However, what I should have said is.......'the harm to the East that the NIC would have imposed.....as in PAST TENSE, as we all know the NIC is now (sorry,....soon to be) dead!

Thanks for pointing this out.

 

[nic4us]

And why would that be? .........anyone, anyone?

Here's a little hint........because NIC gave it all to the West.

I completely disagree with your assesment of the circumstances surrounding Wye River. For instance, did you offer up the top 517 at Wye River, did you offer to drop the widebody fence, or were the protections Nic granted the east off limits? However, it does not matter because Wye River is a thing of the past that has no bearing on where we are heading in the future.

Under ALPA and the TA, we had seperate ratification. The east had the ability to vote down any contract that contained the Nic and remain on status quo indefinitely. It was your call, seperate ops or a contract with the Nic.

Your desire to thwart those circumstances and try to cramdown a DOH list with majority numbers has led us to an expensive battle where nothing has changed.

usapa's strategy has a roadblock at every turn, because ( I cannot emphasize this enough) THE ARBITRATED AWARD IS NOT GOING AWAY. It boils down to seperate ops or a contract with the Nic. It is still your call. But now, in the end, everyone has to pay large sums of money for the decision the east had in the first place.

So go ahead and make the call, but spare us the finger pointing and rewritten history lessons.

 

[luvn737s]

Under ALPA and the TA, we had seperate ratification.

I'm not completely sure that's accurate. However, USAPA could go a long way towards saving itself by allowing separate ratification of the joint contract. It would force both sides to work together cooperatively in order to bring anything passable to a vote. With dual ratification there would need to be built-in triggers to prevent procrastination.

 

[luvthe9]

Hearing rumors that the west will start to recall soon.

Heard the same thing from our fleet manager yesterday, except the recall is on the East side don't know much about your side, the other good news is 3 more 330-200s should be announced soon, we could use them!!!

 

[Black Swan]

I completely dis
usapa's strategy has a roadblock at every turn, because ( I cannot emphasize this enough) THE ARBITRATED AWARD IS NOT GOING AWAY. It boils down to seperate ops or a contract with the Nic. It is still your call. But now, in the end, everyone has to pay large sums of money for the decision the east had in the first place.

So go ahead and make the call, but spare us the finger pointing and rewritten history lessons.

Nic4us, sorry I cannot agree with the part about the ARBITRATED AWARD IS NOT GOING AWAY part. I really do not see how that will hold up. I am going with a very reliable source on this one. Everything is open at this point. Seniority is negotiable. I am not going to say Parker will ACCEPT a DOH list either if it is presented. He may have other ideas. But I do believe USAPA will deliver the DOH list with C&R's to him. Regards.

 

[tripod727]

Heard the same thing from our fleet manager yesterday, except the recall is on the East side don't know much about your side, the other good news is 3 more 330-200s should be announced soon, we could use them!!!

Tthat's great news, did el fleet manager give any indication as to when the recalls would begin? On the east side

 

[luvthe9]

Tthat's great news, did el fleet manager give any indication as to when the recalls would begin? On the east side

Was told possibly this fall, let's all keep are fingers crossed!!!

 

[767jetz]

Now go spend some time with your kids.

Love to. Unfortunately it's hard to do at a hotel in LAX.

 

[A320 Driver]

Tthat's great news, did el fleet manager give any indication as to when the recalls would begin? On the east side

I don't think the company needs them for new flying as much as they need them to replace B-767 that are getting VERY tired. Not really good news for recalls, but that was the plan, way back when...replace the 767s.


Driver B)

 

[GuntherA320]

I don't think the company needs them for new flying as much as they need them to replace B-767 that are getting VERY tired. Not really good news for recalls, but that was the plan, way back when...replace the 767s.


Driver B)

Actually, I heard that US just applied for 7 unused frequencies (United) to Sao Paulo, Brazil. I'd say we will need more long range aircraft for that.

 

[nic4us]

I don't think the company needs them for new flying as much as they need them to replace B-767 that are getting VERY tired. Not really good news for recalls, but that was the plan, way back when...replace the 767s.


Driver B)

Replacement for the 76 would greatly enhance capability and reliability. You will be able to make Hawaii without the frequent PHX fuel stop, and the Brazil becomes more comfortable for crew and passengers.

 

[cleardirect]

Typical when things get slow on this board someone brings up Wye river and blames the west for not caving to the pressure. So two days ago I asked all of the well informed usapa supporters for their ideas. So far not a single answer to my question. The closest to an answer was, nothing Nic took it all.

If the east was really looking for middle ground an not just the west to give away something,

Simple question but no answer. We all know what you want to take what are you willing to give.

How was the east willing to move into some middle ground to find a compromise other than demanding just the west move?

If none of you can even come up with a simple answer than why should the west have moved from our position if it was all give on our part? If as many of you read the ninth’s ruling that usapa is as free to change the Nicolau as ALPA why didn’t ALPA just change it at Wye river without the west consent? Answer because ALPA could not change it just like usapa can not change it without consent. But the problem now is there is no one to make a deal with.

When the east decided to take your bat and ball and go home you removed that option and put yourself in that box.