US Pilots Labor Discussion 6/29- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[oldiebutgoody]

The dismissal is NOT irrelevant. It is the fact today as we stand here. What I posted is NOT emotional uniformed opinion it is the judges ruling.

The case has been dismissed with prejudice. The federal judge in NC found that usapa and Seham did not even have enough of a case to go any further. Not even enough to start the trial. Until and unless the fourth changes it the west pilots falsely sued for RICO have been dismissed. NO case.

Have any idea what happens if the forth does reverse? Have any idea how much dues money usapa has wasted to get thrown out of court?

That case was thrown out two years ago. So you bring up a dismissed case for what reason? Changing the subject perhaps?

BTW where is that DOH contract you all think that you won from the ninth? How much longer are we going to wait for that?

Since USAPA made this a ciivil case instead of a criminal one, the Cactus 18 can just pay the damages out of the money they get in the Addington case. What? there isn't going to be any? How will they pay for all the new toys?

 

[oldiebutgoody]

What has that return on investment been? Still working under LOA 93. Still the lowest paid major pilots. Got sued for DFR in the first 6 months and spent over $3 million defending yourselves. That is still not over. Still hoping that Parker will play nice and "give" you DOH.

The grievance record is spotty at best.

No really how has usapa been the best money you spent? What has been the return?

How do you figure?

You guys are saying that you got some "companion pass" price for you legal assisstance (I guess I can only comment that you get what you pay for) and that it cost USAPA 3 million+. I suppose that means either you totally made this up (as I suspect), or we clearly hired a SUPERIOR legal team (obviously). Actually, that would mean that SSM&P cost the east side 2 mil (2/3 of 3 million) and the west side 1 mil (1/3 of 3 mil). So, add that to your bill, you guys are in it for 3 mil+, and the east side for 2 mil+. Plus WE WON!

Yup, the BEST money I've ever spent.

I await your next set of made up facts.

 

[oscarjazz]

Your statement sir, " When I asked one of the defendants for that little audio I was told that you had to send away to the fourth circuit unlike the ninth that publishes."

Your own America West Pilots cactus 18 web site provided this to you, click here.

This Rico case against the actions of the America West pilots is now being decided in the 4th circuit court of appeals. I provided a link to the oral arguments.

Oral arguments audio, Rico claim against the America West Pilots,

The dismissal in the lower court is totally irrelevant at this point in time, sir. I provided the link to the appeals court audio so others can base their opinions on facts, not emotional uninformed opinions, as you so eloquently provided.

I just listened to your link.

Every lawyer that is involved in bringing this case should be embarrassed by their actions.

Every union official that is involved in bringing this case should be embarrassed by their actions.

Every pilot in USAPA that does not scream to their union that this case should be dropped should be embarrassed by their actions.

This is the most immature, pointless action that any union could take and is merely a situation of spite and hatred overcoming common sense. When my kids were teenagers I would not have tolerated this type of childish retribution. I cannot see why it is tolerated amongst educated adults given a position of responsibility in our society. I don't care if every allegation that has been made is true. This is all pointless.

This is the most embarrassing action I have ever seen a union take, bar none. USAPA should be ashamed, their pilots should be ashamed.

 

[nic4us]

............ HP was where you applied if no one else would take you.

Especially when the "no one else" were airlines like the thrice bankrupt US Airways, with 1700 pilots on the street.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

I just listened to your link.

Every lawyer that is involved in bringing this case should be embarrassed by their actions.

Every union official that is involved in bringing this case should be embarrassed by their actions.

Every pilot in USAPA that does not scream to their union that this case should be dropped should be embarrassed by their actions.

This is the most immature, pointless action that any union could take and is merely a situation of spite and hatred overcoming common sense. When my kids were teenagers I would not have tolerated this type of childish retribution. I cannot see why it is tolerated amongst educated adults given a position of responsibility in our society. I don't care if every allegation that has been made is true. This is all pointless.

This is the most embarrassing action I have ever seen a union take, bar none. USAPA should be ashamed, their pilots should be ashamed.

You forgot the most important part:

The perpetrators should be in JAIL!

 

[Pi brat]

I just listened to your link.

Every lawyer that is involved in bringing this case should be embarrassed by their actions.

Every union official that is involved in bringing this case should be embarrassed by their actions.

Every pilot in USAPA that does not scream to their union that this case should be dropped should be embarrassed by their actions.

This is the most immature, pointless action that any union could take and is merely a situation of spite and hatred overcoming common sense. When my kids were teenagers I would not have tolerated this type of childish retribution. I cannot see why it is tolerated amongst educated adults given a position of responsibility in our society. I don't care if every allegation that has been made is true. This is all pointless.

This is the most embarrassing action I have ever seen a union take, bar none. USAPA should be ashamed, their pilots should be ashamed.

I have to agree with you on this one. This is an end justifies the means action. It should have been dropped years ago.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Especially when the "no one else" were airlines like the thrice bankrupt US Airways, with 1700 pilots on the street.

Oh boy. Here we go again. By the way, I only counted two.

 

[cleardirect]

You forgot the most important part:

The perpetrators should be in JAIL!

How come no criminal charges where filed? Maybe because responsible adults in the DA's office looked at this and laughed usapa out of the office. Oscarjass I agree. The west pilots have been asking, demanding that these charges be dropped but as usual the brain trust at usapa refuses to listen because of the likes of most of the east posters here. Demanding jail time for a web post or phone call. All hail the dictator. Stalin would have been proud.

Or Oldie are you talking about the usapa perpetrators that filed a false and malicious case should be in jail?

 

[Pi brat]

You forgot the most important part:

The perpetrators should be in JAIL!

Maybe they should and if you feel that way you should talk to your reps. USAPA didn't handle this in a way that would send someone to jail, they did it in a way to set off a bomb that would inflict the most damage to the west in whatever way they could, and whoever they could. Guys, USAPA has been right about a lot, but this one is WRONG!

 

[cleardirect]

How do you figure?

You guys are saying that you got some "companion pass" price for you legal assisstance (I guess I can only comment that you get what you pay for) and that it cost USAPA 3 million+. I suppose that means either you totally made this up (as I suspect), or we clearly hired a SUPERIOR legal team (obviously). Actually, that would mean that SSM&P cost the east side 2 mil (2/3 of 3 million) and the west side 1 mil (1/3 of 3 mil). So, add that to your bill, you guys are in it for 3 mil+, and the east side for 2 mil+. Plus WE WON!

Yup, the BEST money I've ever spent.

I await your next set of made up facts.

I tell you what. Prove me wrong using the facts. Look up the LM-2's total up the cost and get back to us.

I will get you started Brengle was over $500,000 alone. Not bad for playing solitare for the last week of the trial.

BTW you won nothing. The case was delayed. That's it. Has Judge Wake dismissed the case yet? Is the injunction still in place? Do you have DOH yet? Are you still working under LOA 93?

Remind me what have you won?

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Maybe they should and if you feel that way you should talk to your reps. USAPA didn't handle this in a way that would send someone to jail, they did it in a way to set off a bomb that would inflict the most damage to the west in whatever way they could, and whoever they could. Guys, USAPA has been right about a lot, but this one is WRONG!

I already stated that this was a CIVIL, not criminal suit.

The BOTTOM line, YOU BREAK THE LAW, YOU PAY THE CONSEQUENCES.

I, for one, DO NOT think this should be dismissed. The things some folks did was HEINOUS. I think the Feds should be looking into it for some of the things they are accused of, including mailing HAZMAT.

This was a minor, misinformed attempt at terrorism, pure and simple. They attempted to cause fear in an attempt to accomplish their goals. Where do you draw the line between mailing poop and what Pi Brat was talking about? I actually think it should have remained a criminal case, even though winning it would have been more difficult. They got really lucky. USAPA is only suing for cash. Pretty magnanimous on their part.

And another thing. I've got to wonder about the mental and emotional stability of someone that would do something like the things these 18+ are accused of. How much more would it have taken for one of the defendants to mail something that could do real damage?

 

[oldiebutgoody]

I tell you what. Prove me wrong using the facts. Look up the LM-2's total up the cost and get back to us.

I will get you started Brengle was over $500,000 alone. Not bad for playing solitare for the last week of the trial.

BTW you won nothing. The case was delayed. That's it. Has Judge Wake dismissed the case yet? Is the injunction still in place? Do you have DOH yet? Are you still working under LOA 93?

Remind me what have you won?

I've seen them. Don't forget, legal fees are in the "germane expenses' you guys are paying, too.

It's going to be part of being a uinion. There WILL be legal challenges. The key is to always do the right thing, which USAPA is doing.

Don't worry, IT WLL be dismissed. Be patient. Oh, that's right. You guys want it ALL, and you want it NOW. Can't wait to get it in the PROPER sequence.

So far, we've won IT ALL!

 

[Pi brat]

I already stated that this was a CIVIL, not criminal suit.

The BOTTOM line, YOU BREAK THE LAW, YOU PAY THE CONSEQUENCES.

I, for one, DO NOT think this should be dismissed. The things some folks did was HEINOUS. I think the Feds should be looking into it for some of the things they are accused of, including mailing HAZMAT.

This was a minor, misinformed attempt at terrorism, pure and simple. They attempted to cause fear in an attempt to accomplish their goals. I actually think it should have remained a criminal case, even though winning it would have been more difficult. They got really lucky. USAPA is only suing for cash. Pretty magnanimous on their part.

And another thing. I've got to wonder about the mental and emotional stability of someone that would do something like the things these 18+ are accused of.

Actually it's more like 22-24 and most of them are on trial for doing what you and I are doing right now, making web posts. Oldie, this thing is a dog. USAPA's suit got the really troubling actions stopped pretty quick, and that was what mattered. The rest is for spending the other sides money and retribution. It should have ended long ago, and I'm not the only east pilot that feels that way. Several on the BPR do, but just not enough.

 

[nic4us]

I just listened to your link.

Every union official that is involved in bringing this case should be embarrassed by their actions.

This is the most immature, pointless action that any union could take and is merely a situation of spite and hatred overcoming common sense....... I don't care if every allegation that has been made is true. This is all pointless.

This is the most embarrassing action I have ever seen a union take, bar none. USAPA should be ashamed, their pilots should be ashamed.

Embarrassed?

We are talking about the same fake union officials who have been acting like children that threaten to hold there breath until they turn blue.

The company told them they would not get DOH, when the two CEOs wrote a joint statement of labor principles. The mediator told them they would not get DOH. Their own merger council told them they would not get DOH. The arbitrator told them they would not get DOH. ALPA national tells them they will not get DOH, and they throw them off the property. A federal judge tells them they are not getting DOH and they appeal. The appelate court tells them, there is still the possiblity that the fake union will seek "a final proposal may yet be one that does not work the damages plaintiffs fear"(i.e. DOH), and they see this as a green light to impose DOH.

They file this frivolous RICO lawsuit, as an attack on West financial resources and as payback against individuals who posted derogatory remarks aimed at them on the ALPA national web board, get thrown out of court and appeal that decision.

Well it is far past the time to take the blue faced child union to the woodshed, resort to corporal punishment, and spank them so hard they are forced to gasp for air.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Actually it's more like 22-24 and most of them are on trial for doing what you and I are doing right now, making web posts. Oldie, this thing is a dog. USAPA's suit got the really troubling actions stopped pretty quick, and that was what mattered. The rest is for spending the other sides money and retribution. It should have ended long ago, and I'm not the only east pilot that feels that way. Several on the BPR do, but just not enough.

You know, conspiring to do illegal things over the internet is still against the law. People are put in jail for it all the time.

They're pretty lucky that USAPA is only looking to limit their ability to do it again, by limiting their resources, mainly money.

I don't know any of the defendants. I DO know that if I had received a threatening letter in the mail at my home or office, there would have been NO stopping me from filing a criminal action. Plus, they conspired to jam fairly critical USAPA phone lines, including the Safety Hotline, among others.

What they did was illegal, morally wrong and childish.

If it's so frivlolous, how come folks on here are so worried about the outcome?