US Pilots Labor Discussion 6/20- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[luvthe9]

ARLINGTON, Va. - US Airways has assured customers they won’t notice any changes following its decision to file for bankruptcy protection, the second time in two years the airline has sought such help as it struggles against lower-cost rivals.

The filing Sunday in U.S. Bankruptcy Court in Alexandria came after US Airways was unable to obtain $800 million in annual cost cuts from its workers’ unions that the airline said it needed to stay afloat. A hearing was scheduled Monday.

The company, the nation’s seventh-largest airline, said financial deadlines looming Sept. 30 forced it to file now to conserve cash to navigate bankruptcy. The airline also had a $110 million pension payment due Wednesday if it had not sought protection.

US Airways Chairman David Bronner had warned several weeks ago that the airline would most likely have to liquidate if it filed for bankruptcy. Lakefield backed off those comments Sunday and assured customers that the airline faced no immediate danger of shutting down.

Bronner did not like your odds

And here is where it gets interesting. It sounds as if the pay rates for the narrowbody will be near 175-180.00 And the DOH seniority proposal is rumored to have been sent to Parker. So we are getting down to it. Are you westies going to vote for it? And if it passes, will you be "harmed??"

 

[BoeingBoy]

And what exactly was that Jim?

Which "what" are you referring to?

From what I remember, the shuttle guys did alright coming over the AAA.

Because the arbitrator rejected the US pilot's arguments...

BTW, why don't you answer A320 DRIVER's question about EAL DOH?

I did - see post #69.

Your not on any of my lists are you?

Since I have no idea what "lists" you have, I don't know.

Jim

 

[luvthe9]

The arbitrator did not reject the AAA pilots arguments. Read page 3 of the award.

 

[BoeingBoy]

What does US Airways condition in 2004 have to do with AWA's condition in 2004?

Nothing until you brought up HP's condition back then. After that, a comparison seemed to be in order.

I've conceded that US was probably toast without the merger, but the AWA guys seem to think they were working for SWA or Singapore, they weren't. Every US domestic airline has felt the effects of this economy, but AWA folks seem to think they would have been immune and still would have grown. B.S.

I think most if not all the comments from West posters had been about the two airline's financial status in 2005. I certainly haven't seen any comparisons to WN or SQ. Now you're bringing 2009 into it. Undoubtedly HP would have experienced the same financial problems as the rest of the industry in 2009. But as you admit, US wouldn't have survived to see 2009. I guess it's a personal judgment - would it have been better to be out of a job in 2005/6 or possibly out of a job in 2009/10.

Jim

 

[machflyer]

Which "what" are you referring to?



Because the arbitrator rejected the US pilot's arguments...



I did - see post #69.



Since I have no idea what "lists" you have, I don't know.

Jim

You're kidding me, right?
Post 69 sez nada about your EAL DOH.
And you know exactly what list(s) I'm referring to. A similar list I have with AWA names on it from 1987.

Mike
DOH 1989

 

[Pi brat]

Nothing until you brought up HP's condition back then. After that, a comparison seemed to be in order.



I think most if not all the comments from West posters had been about the two airline's financial status in 2005. I certainly haven't seen any comparisons to WN or SQ. Now you're bringing 2009 into it. Undoubtedly HP would have experienced the same financial problems as the rest of the industry in 2009. But as you admit, US wouldn't have survived to see 2009. I guess it's a personal judgment - would it have been better to be out of a job in 2005/6 or possibly out of a job in 2009/10.

Jim

Jim,

Here is the post I responded to from Ames:

"Where do you get this stuff? Without the "merger" US Airways would most certainly have gone Ch7 liquidation. Had that happened America West would have continued to grow, most likely at an accelerated level due to the void left by US Airways. "

I'm not arguing who saved who, we have been told not to do that. I was asking Ames if he really believed that was AWA's future. I don't. My point is that west pilots seem to take their snapshot of what was going on prior to the merger and think that things would have continued on that way. We know from experience that even the best of airlines don't do that. When did you get hired at PI, the late 70's? I believe PI had 10-12 year F/Os then that were just getting ready to check out(the 737 S/Os?), then a few years later it was around 2 years to F-28 capt, then BANG! A merger comes along and all bets are off. The same applies to AWA. My point about SWA and Singapore was that they think they were working for a similar airline, and they weren't. I'm tired of both sides looking down on each other, both were pretty low.

Personally I would rather have been out of job in 2005. I had a pretty good plan b then, not now.

 

[nic4us]

And here is where it gets interesting. It sounds as if the pay rates for the narrowbody will be near 175-180.00 And the DOH seniority proposal is rumored to have been sent to Parker. So we are getting down to it. Are you westies going to vote for it? And if it passes, will you be "harmed??"

Great a $35-40/hr raise. As long as it has the Nic in section 22 the West will not be harmed.

Anything less than the Nic, get sued, waste money, "unquestionably ripe DFR."

 

[Barrister]

And here is where it gets interesting. It sounds as if the pay rates for the narrowbody will be near 175-180.00 And the DOH seniority proposal is rumored to have been sent to Parker. So we are getting down to it. Are you westies going to vote for it? And if it passes, will you be "harmed??"

Well now THAT WILL BE INTERESTING!!!! Put 170 on the table......50% of the West votes it in.

DFR DOA....just like NICDOA

NPJN

 

[Barrister]

If you want to see a date of hire merger policy, get you hands on a Allegheny Mohawk combined seniority list from 1971. The seniority goes from 1968 date of hire to 1969 then back to 1968. This occurred because we were on furlough from Mohawk but working for Allegheny at the time of the merger. So pilots hired in 1969 were senior to Mohawk pilots hired in 1968. So much for DOH.

Hey, Cap'n Bud.....weren't you here a long time ago....were you the dude who thought
a retiree should bump an active emp....even one trying to get to work......
do I have the right guy....if not my bad!!

NICDOA
NPJB

 

[BoeingBoy]

The arbitrator did not reject the AAA pilots arguments. Read page 3 of the award.

The arbitrator didn't use the method the US pilots wanted. Call that "rejected" or any other word you like...

Jim

 

[BoeingBoy]

Post 69 sez nada about your EAL DOH.

Probably because I never worked for EA, ya think? I took 320's post as asking if I had wanted to integrate the Shuttle pilots by their EA DOH, so answered that question. I can't do anything about how you took 320's post/question.

And you know exactly what list(s) I'm referring to. A similar list I have with AWA names on it from 1987.

Now that you're more specific, nope - wrong again. Golly - two wrongs in one post. Does that make a "write".

Jim

 

[BoeingBoy]

Jim,

Here is the post I responded to from Ames:

"Where do you get this stuff? Without the "merger" US Airways would most certainly have gone Ch7 liquidation. Had that happened America West would have continued to grow, most likely at an accelerated level due to the void left by US Airways. "

I agree, that's an opinion and not fact. As I said in another post, no one knows what the post-2005 future would have held for HP without the merger. They may have ended up liquidating due to the economy in 2009, or picked up some pieces of US and prospered. Or anything in between.

Jim

 

[FL430]

Yes I was, and unfortunately in the minority on the question of how to treat the Shuttle pilots in that integration.

Jim

Well Jim since you crow so loudly on here about the westies unfair treatment at the hands of the east why didnt you just quit out of protest for the fair treatment of the EAL pilots. You had your chance but i guess your convictions were just not there huh?

 

[cleardirect]

Well now THAT WILL BE INTERESTING!!!! Put 170 on the table......50% of the West votes it in.

DFR DOA....just like NICDOA

NPJN

So lets see. You guys say that your seniority is not for sale. That there is no amount of money that will get you to vote for the Nicolau. That a $45 per hour raise will not sell on the east.

But you think that giving up on the arbitrated award for $25 a hour will buy the west. What makes you think that our seniority is for sale especially that cheap.

Here is some advice, understand your opposition. DOH and $25 will not do it. You are going to need that $45 to pay for the next law suit.

What are you not understanding? It does not matter if 0%, 10%, or 50% of the west votes for or against. Anyone that thinks they are harmed can file a DFR.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Well Jim since you crow so loudly on here about the westies unfair treatment at the hands of the east why didnt you just quit out of protest for the fair treatment of the EAL pilots.

As I said in answer to 320's question, in the end the Shuttle pilots got what I considered pretty fair treatment at the arbitration - my standard of fairness was upheld in the end. So a question back - If you're convinced that DOH is the only fair method of seniority integration, why did you not resign when neither the US pilots nor the arbitrator agreed with you on the Shuttle pilot's integration? I guess your convictions were/are for a method that helps you the most...

Jim