US Pilots Labor Discussion 6/20- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[luvthe9]

I'd say that US had a worse operating margin than HP in 2004. The fact is that no one knows what effect US liquidating in 2005 would have had on HP's fortunes, other than to say it couldn't have made them worse. One thing is certain, however - a liquidation of US would have left all of us that worked for US without a job.

Jim

And I guess GE Capital and all the rest of the lease holders would have let this tank? Not. There was so much money flowing out of USAirways, there is no way anyone would have pulled the plug. Would you evict a tenant in financial straits if he was making his payments? No, and neither would all those entities that had their names on the engines, cockpits and everyplace else. There is no way USAirways was going down. Air Wisconsin, Republic, Wilmington Trust and all the parasites feeding off this airline were not going to take it away.This airline has always been a cash cow for management and the banks. GE Cap. especially. There is no way it was going away.

 

[Ames]

So does almost everyone outside of the east pilot group.

Yes, thank you. Too bad Pi brat (Mr. delusions of grandeur) will never admit this.

 

[luvthe9]

So does almost everyone outside of the east pilot group.

Sure, one guy from another airline with thousands of posts here makes up pretty much all of that outside group........

 

[Ames]

And I guess GE Capital and all the rest of the lease holders would have let this tank? Not. There was so much money flowing out of USAirways, there is no way anyone would have pulled the plug. Would you evict a tenant in financial straits if he was making his payments? No, and neither would all those entities that had their names on the engines, cockpits and everyplace else. There is no way USAirways was going down. Air Wisconsin, Republic, Wilmington Trust and all the parasites feeding off this airline were not going to take it away.This airline has always been a cash cow for management and the banks. GE Cap. especially. There is no way it was going away.

Right, and the problem is that US Airways wasn't making their payments. Even the most desperate investors will eventually cut their losses.

 

[machflyer]

Where do you get this stuff? Without the "merger" US Airways would most certainly have gone Ch7 liquidation. Had that happened America West would have continued to grow, most likely at an accelerated level due to the void left by US Airways.

Ames, you need to lay off the crack.

Mike
DOH 1989

 

[boeingplt]

One thing is certain, however - a liquidation of US would have left all of us that worked for US without a job.
Jim

Another thing is certain, Parker did not go to the RSA, who owned US Airways basically, and broker the deal to fund a "buyout" out of the goodness of his heart. That deal was put together because he felt he could make money for the shareholders compared to not doing the deal. What does that tell you about AWA's pre merger state?

Answer...worse off than not merging, right? Now considering where the merged entity went in proximity to demise what does that say about AWA's unmerged prospects?

Get passed all that shite and realize that we will all work under USAPA's S22 for at a minimum the years we fight about it baring an outright win by USAPA which is the likely outcome. The only practical variable is will the conditions and restrictions have west input.

 

[Ames]

Sure, one guy from another airline with thousands of posts here makes up pretty much all of that outside group........

Most of us in the industry read about the industry, discuss it with our peers and have a general awareness of the business we're in. I would be willing to bet that 767jetz is just one of those people. I would also be willing to bet that most east pilots don't want that same awareness because for so long it was so bad for them and not knowing, for them, is better than knowing.

 

[jetjok1]

Really!? Do you truly believe this?

Yeah Pi, my thought exactly. if that would have been the case, why merge in the first place. Just let us die!

 

[machflyer]

Yes I was, and unfortunately in the minority on the question of how to treat the Shuttle pilots in that integration.

Jim

And what exactly was that Jim?
From what I remember, the shuttle guys did alright coming over the AAA.
BTW, why don't you answer A320 DRIVER's question about EAL DOH?
Your not on any of my lists are you?

Mike
DOH 1989

 

[nic4us]

And I guess GE Capital and all the rest of the lease holders would have let this tank? Not. There was so much money flowing out of USAirways, there is no way anyone would have pulled the plug. Would you evict a tenant in financial straits if he was making his payments? No, and neither would all those entities that had their names on the engines, cockpits and everyplace else. There is no way USAirways was going down. Air Wisconsin, Republic, Wilmington Trust and all the parasites feeding off this airline were not going to take it away.This airline has always been a cash cow for management and the banks. GE Cap. especially. There is no way it was going away.

ARLINGTON, Va. - US Airways has assured customers they won’t notice any changes following its decision to file for bankruptcy protection, the second time in two years the airline has sought such help as it struggles against lower-cost rivals.

The filing Sunday in U.S. Bankruptcy Court in Alexandria came after US Airways was unable to obtain $800 million in annual cost cuts from its workers’ unions that the airline said it needed to stay afloat. A hearing was scheduled Monday.

The company, the nation’s seventh-largest airline, said financial deadlines looming Sept. 30 forced it to file now to conserve cash to navigate bankruptcy. The airline also had a $110 million pension payment due Wednesday if it had not sought protection.

US Airways Chairman David Bronner had warned several weeks ago that the airline would most likely have to liquidate if it filed for bankruptcy. Lakefield backed off those comments Sunday and assured customers that the airline faced no immediate danger of shutting down.

Bronner did not like your odds

 

[BoeingBoy]

And I guess GE Capital and all the rest of the lease holders would have let this tank? Not.

Opinion, not fact...

Jim

 

[Pi brat]

I'd say that US had a worse operating margin than HP in 2004. The fact is that no one knows what effect US liquidating in 2005 would have had on HP's fortunes, other than to say it couldn't have made them worse. One thing is certain, however - a liquidation of US would have left all of us that worked for US without a job.

Jim

What does US Airways condition in 2004 have to do with AWA's condition in 2004? I've conceded that US was probably toast without the merger, but the AWA guys seem to think they were working for SWA or Singapore, they weren't. Every US domestic airline has felt the effects of this economy, but AWA folks seem to think they would have been immune and still would have grown. B.S.

Jim I respect your opinion most of the time, but sometimes your bias is unbelievable.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Another thing is certain, Parker did not go to the RSA, who owned US Airways basically, and broker the deal to fund a "buyout" out of the goodness of his heart. That deal was put together because he felt he could make money for the shareholders compared to not doing the deal. What does that tell you about AWA's pre merger state?

Nothing other than Parker thought the combination, after US' bankruptcy and cost cuts, could make more money than HP alone (and possibly that Parker wanted to be a "big airline CEO").

Jim

 

[john john]

Two questions I pose to the US pilot group:

1.- What is the language in your contract for seating capacity that is considered mainline work?

2.- Why is it that in CLT mainline pilots are not operating the 900 series equipment of 86 seaters?

Mainline customer service agents would like to know as all 900 equipment is being handled by EN and we are losing ALOT of mainline jobs because of this. Out of terminal E in CLT there are over 35 flights being handled by a non-represented employees.

We would all like this recognized and answered.

DEX

The US Airways and America West collective bargaining agreements with ALPA will be modified to allow for a combined maximum of ninety-three (93) CRJ-900, or other aircraft within the seating and maximum take-off weight limits specified in Paragraph B above, to be operated in revenue service at any given time at Express Carriers except that for every two (2) aircraft in excess of the combined 360 aircraft (excluding EMB 190 aircraft) operated at both US Airways and America West, that are added to revenue service in the mainline fleet, the Company may allow three (3) additional CRJ-900, or other aircraft within the seating and maximum take-off weight limits specified in Paragraph B above, to be operated in revenue service at Express carriers.

 

[Pi brat]

Do some research. Prior to the "merger" announcement AWA had two quarters of profit and was well on the way to a third. In addition, the company was growing around 10% with regular Airbus deliveries and actively hiring pilots. America West held its own against Southwest for 20 years prior to attaching itself to the Titanic of airlines. Oh, yeah, in 2004 the economy was pretty good.

I have done some research. I believe AWA lost money in 2004 and had a small profit in the 1st quarter of 2005 due to a gain in fuel hedging. They had an ATSB loan outstanding, correct? I'll try to find the links I was looking at.

US was once going to purchase over 400 A320s. We see where that went. I see no evidence that AWA was some super company that would have been immune to the effects of the last few years. To the contrary, it's leader Mr Douglas Parker. has said it would have been in for some tough sledding. But the genius pilots on here know better, right?

If things were so great, why did they MERGE with US Airways? Charity? I think not.