US Pilots Labor Discussion 5/13- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[Freebird]

It was not from Mike Cleary, but rather from two of the USAPA founders Steve Bradford and Mark King. The two founders feel that the union is straying from its original vision, and that it is resembling ALPA more and more.

They cite FPL abuses, committee chairmen who haven't flown the line in decades, certain other perks which were over indulged in by ALPA and seem to be returning.

They describe some of the unpleasant circumstances regarding the departure - or what led to it - of Dave Ciabattoni.

Most important, they accuse Cleary and Mowry (SP?) of abusing and aggrandizing power by changing the structure and functionality of the leaderhip team.

But other than that, everything is just peachy keen.

Thats rich. Bradford and King criticizing their 'pet project'. "Gee I didnt think playing with matches would create a wildfire this BIG !!! "

Meanwhile the apathy on the East side continues. Wake up people. Cleary and his stooges are leading you of the edge of the cliff and you're happily following along.

How Much has USAPA cost you? $70,000 ??? $100,000 ???


“Stupidity is the deliberate cultivation of ignorance” ~William Gaddis

 

[electricjet98]

Thats rich. Bradford and King criticizing their 'pet project'. "Gee I didnt think playing with matches would create a wildfire this BIG !!! "

Meanwhile the apathy on the East side continues. Wake up people. Cleary and his stooges are leading you of the edge of the cliff and you're happily following along.

How Much has USAPA cost you? $70,000 ??? $100,000 ???


“Stupidity is the deliberate cultivation of ignorance” ~William Gaddis

Right on the money!!!

The vote for USAPA from individuals who were, or had been, convinced that the problem was with ALPA will someday realize they were duped. Their apathy prior to the NIC added to their shock when hearing of the award. Had they taken the time to become informed and involved prior to the award, their elected representative's strategy and the resulting award could have been significantly different.

Now they are beginning to realize that the carpetbaggers such as the guy from CLT who sought and remained gainfully employed as an "off-the-street" Captain by union-busting Freedom Airlines, have their own self-serving agenda. This guy from CLT, now running for the union officer position of Executive Vice President, remained at Freedom Airlines despite having been notified by his union (ALPA) at the airline at which he retained recall rights (AAA), that Freedom Airlines was operating to harm fellow union pilots and the entire pilot profession. Not until the Mesa pilots were forced to concede (by the actions of pilots at union-busting Freedom Airlines) to a sub-standard contract that would bring the Freedom Airlines flying back in-house and the Freedom pilots would be integrated back into the Mesa pilots by their Date-of-Hire, did this guy "refuse a flight assignment" that resulted in the end of his gainful employment. He thought that being forced back to FO was beneath him...he deserved better!

When intellegent people conceed their rights and responsibilities to people who are only interested in their own self-enrichment at others expense, you can see why we're where we're at!

 

[boeingplt]

Right on the money!!!

The vote for USAPA from individuals who were, or had been, convinced that the problem was with ALPA will someday realize they were duped. Their apathy prior to the NIC added to their shock when hearing of the award. Had they taken the time to become informed and involved prior to the award, their elected representative's strategy and the resulting award could have been significantly different.

Now they are beginning to realize that the carpetbaggers such as the guy from CLT who sought and remained gainfully employed as an "off-the-street" Captain by union-busting Freedom Airlines, have their own self-serving agenda. This guy from CLT, now running for the union officer position of Executive Vice President, remained at Freedom Airlines despite having been notified by his union (ALPA) at the airline at which he retained recall rights (AAA), that Freedom Airlines was operating to harm fellow union pilots and the entire pilot profession. Not until the Mesa pilots were forced to concede (by the actions of pilots at union-busting Freedom Airlines) to a sub-standard contract that would bring the Freedom Airlines flying back in-house and the Freedom pilots would be integrated back into the Mesa pilots by their Date-of-Hire, did this guy "refuse a flight assignment" that resulted in the end of his gainful employment. He thought that being forced back to FO was beneath him...he deserved better!

When intellegent people conceed their rights and responsibilities to people who are only interested in their own self-enrichment at others expense, you can see why we're where we're at!

You need to get your facts straight. He went there, got the type rating and then was terminated because he refused to fly the line. Admittedly not the best idea but far from how you are portraying it. In the end all that happened was he took up a spot in training that could have been occupied by someone who actually would have helped Freedom try to bust the union and he cost them money.

 

[End of USAPA]

You need to get your facts straight. He went there, got the type rating and then was terminated because he refused to fly the line. Admittedly not the best idea but far from how you are portraying it. In the end all that happened was he took up a spot in training that could have been occupied by someone who actually would have helped Freedom try to bust the union and he cost them money.

USAPA is ending- the above post proves it. An excuse for anything- but hey, at least they are running out the clock better than Prater could have!

 

[ChuckBewFarley]

You need to get your facts straight. He went there, got the type rating and then was terminated because he refused to fly the line. Admittedly not the best idea but far from how you are portraying it. In the end all that happened was he took up a spot in training that could have been occupied by someone who actually would have helped Freedom try to bust the union and he cost them money.

Check the dates when the AAA MEC sent the resolution to the pilot group warning NOT to work for Freedom and when he was hired and when he 'quit'. He knowingly worked for an operation that had no other purpose but to bust a legitimate union.

Seems the secrets are coming out of the closet- first the 'I never worked at Continential' and now this. And the list of furloughees who flew at Freedom seems to have more than one name...

 

[nic4us]

You need to get your facts straight. He went there, got the type rating and then was terminated because he refused to fly the line. Admittedly not the best idea but far from how you are portraying it. In the end all that happened was he took up a spot in training that could have been occupied by someone who actually would have helped Freedom try to bust the union and he cost them money.

The "facts" are straight. The spin is laughable. The reason for his termination was never stated. Mr. Continental "interviewed" but did not accept employment, " for interview practice". Now this guy single handedly fought for the cause and got a type and months of pay, "to cost them money".

"In the end" this guy cost other pilots money and jobs. Mesa pilots had to reduce contract provisions to get the flying back in house. So Mr. "Type rating" cost not only Orenstien money, but the pilots over at MAG as well. Now he wants to come off furlough and leepfrog active pilots, some of whom he screwed over by his actions at Freedom. Some of whom refused to fly at Freedom. By the way, he would have ended up junior to them over there as well.

usapa is no better than Mr. Continental Interviewer, and Mr. Freedom Type rating. As a matter of fact, by its actions, usapa has proven to be of the same cloth as the Continental line crosser, and the Freedom pilot.

 

[Metroyet]

As a matter of fact, by its actions, usapa has proven to be of the same cloth as the Continental line crosser, and the Freedom pilot.

I believe there were a number of bag stickers printed that suggested such a notion as soon as USAPA came upon your property. I still have one given to me by a friend.

 

[aquagreen73s]

You need to get your facts straight. He went there, got the type rating and then was terminated because he refused to fly the line. Admittedly not the best idea but far from how you are portraying it. In the end all that happened was he took up a spot in training that could have been occupied by someone who actually would have helped Freedom try to bust the union and he cost them money.

Your tortured logic is amusing to me, but it's gotta be painful for you. No?

 

[Black Swan]

Right on the money!!!

The vote for USAPA from individuals who were, or had been, convinced that the problem was with ALPA will someday realize they were duped. Their apathy prior to the NIC added to their shock when hearing of the award. Had they taken the time to become informed and involved prior to the award, their elected representative's strategy and the resulting award could have been significantly different.

Now they are beginning to realize that the carpetbaggers such as the guy from CLT who sought and remained gainfully employed as an "off-the-street" Captain by union-busting Freedom Airlines, have their own self-serving agenda. This guy from CLT, now running for the union officer position of Executive Vice President, remained at Freedom Airlines despite having been notified by his union (ALPA) at the airline at which he retained recall rights (AAA), that Freedom Airlines was operating to harm fellow union pilots and the entire pilot profession. Not until the Mesa pilots were forced to concede (by the actions of pilots at union-busting Freedom Airlines) to a sub-standard contract that would bring the Freedom Airlines flying back in-house and the Freedom pilots would be integrated back into the Mesa pilots by their Date-of-Hire, did this guy "refuse a flight assignment" that resulted in the end of his gainful employment. He thought that being forced back to FO was beneath him...he deserved better!

When intellegent people conceed their rights and responsibilities to people who are only interested in their own self-enrichment at others expense, you can see why we're where we're at!

This guy is getting nobodys' vote. If he was at Freedom, he had no business there, and will pay the price. He never did fly a trip. He never should have gone. But for your group, with your history, to take this one guy and parade it around like this- well....... The truth is your airline and its' pilots have NUMEROUS linecrossers. Who actually flew thousands of trips.

 

[aquagreen73s]

This guy is getting nobodys' vote.

He's certainly getting no West votes, but you shouldn't be so confident about the East.

If he was at Freedom, he had no business there, and will pay the price.

He'll still be the CLT rep, no?

But for your group, with your history, to take this one guy and parade it around like this- well....... The truth is your airline and its' pilots have NUMEROUS linecrossers. Who actually flew thousands of trips.

That's rich. Not a single one of the half dozen over here ever served in a union position. Not a single one over here went unnoticed. Not a single one over here needed to be "outed" by the other side. Why is it you need other entities whether it's the West , Arb. Nicolau, or Judge Wake, to expose your dirty laundry? If the West hadn't said anything, he would've kept on serving and YOU Mr BS would have kept on praising him for his character and leadership skills.

 

[nic4us]

This guy is getting nobodys' vote. If he was at Freedom, he had no business there, and will pay the price. He never did fly a trip. He never should have gone. But for your group, with your history, to take this one guy and parade it around like this- well....... The truth is your airline and its' pilots have NUMEROUS linecrossers. Who actually flew thousands of trips.

Swan,

Hopefully you are correct and he will get no votes, because it is not a question of "if he was at Freedom".

Also, we are well aware of the checkered ranks of the West pilot group. We are made painfully aware of it all to often, and have never denied that fact. That is not the point. The point is of the very limited number of people directly invovled with running usapa, already two east pilot usapians are having to explain their past actions. How is it that these guys are coming out of the woodwork so frequently, when your group claims to have no such individuals in your ranks?

Further, it is not a big leap to see that a guy who would be willing to "get a type rating" at others expense, would also be trying to manipulate the system to get seniority at others expense. He wants something he does not have, others have it, he is willing to take it from them. Simple as that; and while I know the motivations behind this mess differ with every individual, issues such as this positively affirm, or at least call into question, the motivations behind usapa.

 

[cleardirect]

You need to get your facts straight. He went there, got the type rating and then was terminated because he refused to fly the line. Admittedly not the best idea but far from how you are portraying it. In the end all that happened was he took up a spot in training that could have been occupied by someone who actually would have helped Freedom try to bust the union and he cost them money.

Did Mr. National Candidate ever fly an IOE trip?

That is a revenue line trip. So no one can say that he never flew a revenue trip.

Are you and the rest of the east supporters willing to take his word for it that he was fired because he refused to fly the line? The same guy that went to a union busting airline for personal gain. Why would you believe a man with so little integrity?

The truth lies closer to Mr. Union Buster quit because he was going to be placed back in DOH seniority order. Imagine that, the same guy that is demanding DOH now so he can be a captain wanted to be hired off the street as a captain but did not like the deal of DOH when he would have become an FO.

The current CLT rep is not a union stalwart but in it for personal gain. There are 7 candidates for the union position, one candidate has admitted to union busting activity. Why would any of you still support this guy? Why not find another candidate that you can get behind?

You guys need to start asking who is supporting and endorsing the union buster and why. Have any of the endorsers recanted and why not? Why is it that that they want this particular guy doing the job of a self described “office manager”? IF it is such a low level job why not withdraw and remove any question instead of bring the negativity to the election?

Is the rep going to even survive in his present job? Why would the CLT pilots allow a known union buster to continue to represent them?

 

[Black Swan]

Swan,

Hopefully you are correct and he will get no votes, because it is not a question of "if he was at Freedom".

Also, we are well aware of the checkered ranks of the West pilot group. We are made painfully aware of it all to often, and have never denied that fact. That is not the point. The point is of the very limited number of people directly invovled with running usapa, already two east pilot usapians are having to explain their past actions. How is it that these guys are coming out of the woodwork so frequently, when your group claims to have no such individuals in your ranks?

Further, it is not a big leap to see that a guy who would be willing to "get a type rating" at others expense, would also be trying to manipulate the system to get seniority at others expense. He wants something he does not have, others have it, he is willing to take it from them. Simple as that; and while I know the motivations behind this mess differ with every individual, issues such as this positively affirm, or at least call into question, the motivations behind usapa.

Every time someone hears about this, and I don't know the facts completely, the more distance everyone wants. If he was at Freedom, for any reason, that is enough for me. And I have spread the word.

 

[luvn737s]

I'm sure Captain Freedom was asked about his intention to work at Freedom during his interview. Did he intentionally mislead the interviewer and if so, does that imply certain character traits about him as a person? Do US pilots want someone of questionable integrity leading them?

Dang, I almost made it all the way through without laughing

 

[Black Swan]

Swan,

Hopefully you are correct and he will get no votes, because it is not a question of "if he was at Freedom".

Also, we are well aware of the checkered ranks of the West pilot group. We are made painfully aware of it all to often, and have never denied that fact. That is not the point. The point is of the very limited number of people directly invovled with running usapa, already two east pilot usapians are having to explain their past actions. How is it that these guys are coming out of the woodwork so frequently, when your group claims to have no such individuals in your ranks?

Further, it is not a big leap to see that a guy who would be willing to "get a type rating" at others expense, would also be trying to manipulate the system to get seniority at others expense. He wants something he does not have, others have it, he is willing to take it from them. Simple as that; and while I know the motivations behind this mess differ with every individual, issues such as this positively affirm, or at least call into question, the motivations behind usapa.

You cannot link this to USAPA. The same logic could be applied to your group and your select union busters who supported ALPA. A bridge too far. Nice try.