US Pilots Labor Discussion 5/13- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[Metroyet]

In one case I know of personally the young daughter of a USAPA volunteer plunged her hand into one of these envelopes. I don't know about you other fathers out there but I would lose my friggin mind if someone placed my daughter in that situation.

Oh come on. Shouldn't a 32 year old woman be smart enough not to "plunge" her hand into some alleged hate mail? Sounds like a purely contrived story to me. In fact, The whole RICO matter is contrived. Unfortunately for USAPA and their cheerleaders, in a country governed by laws, one has to provide evidence that they've been assaulted.

Oddly enough, aside from their solemn word, (try to keep from laughing) USAPA has no evidence, and no proof of anything. Just false accusations. Whatever mass character flaw exists that could create such a useless dysfunctionally delusional machine, is going to be the same flaw that takes them down.

 

[Ames]

Do you really believe that story anyhow?

No, actually I don't.

 

[Ames]

Dude, just keep believing yourself!!!

VNIIMN
NPJB

....and I will keep believing him as well. He makes much more sense than any of the delusional malcontents posting on this board.

 

[767jetz]

This thread is getting boring.

No word from the 9th?

No update messages from USAPA?

 

[Tiger 1050]

Excrement and broken glass, I have seen the boxes, yes boxes, of such examples first hand. In one case I know of personally the young daughter of a USAPA volunteer plunged her hand into one of these envelopes. I don't know about you other fathers out there but I would lose my friggin mind if someone placed my daughter in that situation. Anyone who who condones that type of action isn't much in my book.

Good Heavens! Are you serious? C'mon... It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that you really have no proof. Maybe you watched Sherlock Holmes and felt so inspired that you deduced this must be the only way possible such a thing could happen. Oh! And the "young daughter" of a USAPA volunteer plunging her hand into mail addressed to USAPA? Nice touch. Very dramatic. BTW did you go to the proper authorities for this heinous act? Oh yeah... You did didn't you. How'd that work out?

 

[CallawayGolf]

Good Heavens! Are you serious? C'mon... It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that you really have no proof. Maybe you watched Sherlock Holmes and felt so inspired that you deduced this must be the only way possible such a thing could happen. Oh! And the "young daughter" of a USAPA volunteer plunging her hand into mail addressed to USAPA? Nice touch. Very dramatic. BTW did you go to the proper authorities for this heinous act? Oh yeah... You did didn't you. How'd that work out?

There are three most likely possibilities with this now very old issue:

1. The mailings never occurred. USAPA's brain trust just made it up to impugn their enemies without cause.
2. USAPA leadership or other east pilots did it themselves to blame it on west pilots. The “evidence” was tainted and all USAPA was left with was a zero evidence story with which they sought to impugn the west pilots.
3. A small number of west pilots actually did some or all of what USAPA has blindly accused west pilots of doing.​

In the first and second scenarios USAPA comes off as malevolent and immoral as they make up stories that feed their penchant for narcissism. USAPA is known to make up facts like “seniority can be negotiated like crew meals”. If the third scenario is what actually happened, then it proves once again that USAPA leadership is just a bunch of bumbling amateurs who can’t figure out how to bring the guilty to justice or how to handle crime scene evidence without spoiling it. Whichever it may be, USAPA has no case and can’t salvage a shred of self-respect for how they have handled this. No surprise – this is USAPA we are talking about. Anybody who trusts this outfit is in denial of the highest order.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

What's saddest Callaway, is that many innocent individual west pilots have been put through sheer hell over this. And simply because usapa has tied it up in the appeals court for so long, it's been going on it's third year soon. Who knew posting about not carrying an east jumpseater in his cockpit could lead to what it did. Disgusting.

 

[exB717Flyer]

This thread is getting boring.

No word from the 9th?

No update messages from USAPA?

Very boring. Can you believe that three years after it was settled people are still debating the seniority integration?

The 9th can rule today or it can rule in six months. Trying to read into it is futile.

Speaking of updates from USAPA, we all remember when the appeal was filed how Dear Leader Cleary stated he was "supremely confident" in its success. He's not saying that anymore so it begs the question: is he not supremely confident anymore and if so, why not?

 

[KTM300]

Very boring. Can you believe that three years after it was settled people are still debating the seniority integration?

Hey pal, Every airline merger that wasn't DOH is still being debated! Pan-Am/Northeast, Northwest/Republic, American/TWA, and let us not forget Piedmont/Empire, just to name a few!

 

[CallawayGolf]

Very boring. Can you believe that three years after it was settled people are still debating the seniority integration?

Hey pal, Every airline merger that wasn't DOH is still being debated! Pan-Am/Northeast, Northwest/Republic, American/TWA, and let us not forget Piedmont/Empire, just to name a few!

I think you mean that there are still pilots who prefer to whine about not getting their way rather than accepting the reality that senority and DOH are not the same thing. Is there a matter before the courts or a federal mediator in any of the mergers you mentioned or is it just some unhappy pilots living in the past?

 

[aquagreen73s]

Hey pal, Every airline merger that wasn't DOH is still being debated! Pan-Am/Northeast, Northwest/Republic, American/TWA, and let us not forget Piedmont/Empire, just to name a few!

Debated by whom? They're all final as cured cement.

 

[exB717Flyer]

Is there a matter before the courts or a federal mediator in any of the mergers you mentioned or is it just some unhappy pilots living in the past?

Well, technically yes. The ex-TWA pilots have a DFR suit pending against ALPA. Even if successful it wouldn't change the integration, though.
Interesting to note that the APA successfully did to the TWA pilots exactly what USAPA wanted to do to the AWA pilots: staple 2/3 of them.

 

[cleardirect]

Very boring. Can you believe that three years after it was settled people are still debating the seniority integration?

Hey pal, Every airline merger that wasn't DOH is still being debated! Pan-Am/Northeast, Northwest/Republic, American/TWA, and let us not forget Piedmont/Empire, just to name a few!

So what you are saying is that DOH is not the gold standard that usapa says it is. That over the entire history of mergers there have been other methods of integration.

Now I must ask is who is still debating the results. Would it be the people that did not get what they wanted?

 

[nycbusdriver]

I think that the east pilot really do enjoy misery. There can be no other explanation. They go out of their way to be miserable.

I am beginning to think that east pilot do not know how to be happy.

Yes. We are miserable. Not that we enjoy it a whole lot. But it's something we must endure to reach certain goals.

But, we do believe in the old adage: "Misery loves company."

We are doing our level-headed best to make the west pilots miserable, too.

I think it's working splendidly.

 

[nycbusdriver]

You need to get your facts straight. He went there, got the type rating and then was terminated because he refused to fly the line. Admittedly not the best idea but far from how you are portraying it. In the end all that happened was he took up a spot in training that could have been occupied by someone who actually would have helped Freedom try to bust the union and he cost them money.

Having taken a SELF-imposed break from this circus, my comments are really moot.

I did not support the candidate in question simply because there were at least two better candidates running, IMHO. One of them garnered the largest number of votes. Thankfully, enough on that round to win against the entire west MIGS' block vote in the runoff. The runoff is simply formality right now.

But as far as the guy who went to Freedom, I have a first-hand experience with a similar situation.

I worked for a small outfit in Rockford, IL, whose owner (very rich, outsized ego, little common sense) had delusions of grandeur. We were running Be200s, and G-1s in scheduled service. He ordered 3 DC-9s from Texas International, of which one actually made it to the property.

Pay was okay for the time and the equipment, but when he said he would pay the DC-9 crews exactly what the Be200 and G-1 crews were paid, the pilots were concerned. We looked to ALPA who wouldn't even consider looking at us due to our size (not enough dues money for the mother ship.) We looked at their subsidiary (Union of Professional Airman???) and they were in the processed of being absorbed my the mother ship, so they were not interested in organizing us. The Teamsters accepted the challenge, and within a week we were on strike over union recognition. They immediately brought a class of strike breakers in. While they were in ground school, we convinced a lot of them to honor our picket line, but the union ENCOURAGED them to stay in class and complete training. Why? Even though there was no type rating involved, they were burning through the company's training money, hotel costs and time. Once they were out of class, several joined us on the picket line, most simply quit and went home.

But the union organizers were adamant that they stay in training and let the company think they were succeeeding. It's a tactic. It was effective. I was hired at Piedmont off that picket line and lost touch with the situation. The DC-9 NEVER flew a revenue trip, and the company was bankrupt in months.

Although it is moot, I see no reason why costing a union-busting company money, but never earning a nickel for them, is a bad thing. I think it's priceless on many levels.