US Pilots Labor Discussion 5/13- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[767jetz]

Lots of interesting questions that speak to culpability, but all irrelevant to whether or not the list was accurate, and irrelevant to whether or not MDA was mainline.

I think what's truly irrelevant is whether the list was accurate or whether MDA planes were flown on the certificate. It was accurate bat the time of arbitration, as certified by the east. Nicolau treated the MDA pilots as they were... the bottom of the list.

 

[nic4us]

Yea, and 500 guys who were shown as furloughd were back flying before NIC could find his computer and turn it on. Go broker a peace deal in the Middle East. Won't take you as long and will be more fullfilling than waiting on your 330 seat.

VNIIMN
NPJB

Have you read the award?

We all know the recalls had occured, your pilot neutral wrote an opposing statement on the topic of the placement of those who had already been recalled.

They were recalled because of the merger, not prior to it, and that fact alone is why they are junior to the working pilots who did not need to be recalled.

I have to reply to the 330 comment because I am not sure what to make of it.

Is that some sort of jab that I will have the seniority to bid an equiptment type that you feel I do not have the right to bid? If the Nic was implemented today, I could not hold 330, but eventually I will have the seniority to hold it if I want to, if we still have them or a job. Here is the ironic part, the wait would not be as long as you think, and I truthfully really did not want one. But I am starting to think I may have an obligation to bid the thing to keep Bradford,Thuer, Cleary et.al.off of it. Kind of a payback for screwing the West pilots on the front side of this deal. I guess we already know how and why they would vote on any contract tenative agreement. (picture Theur making his decision and agonizing "must keep Nic4us from getting his 1/4th share of 330 seats") Meanwhile Nic4us drinks a beer in his hot tub having no ballot to cast as he refuses to join the union founded at the Seeham school of how to steal from your fellow employee.

While we are talking, how is that LOA93 grievence going?

 

[luvthe9]

Struck a nerve did I? Dont worry about flying with me -9, you're in the top 300 (or so you say). I prefer to fly with rational people who have integrity. People I can trust. Not some AFO who isn't professional enough to honor an agreement; Someone who feels that they must blame everybody else for their own failure to negotiate. Your pilots will upgrade, just not at the expense of the West. Career expectations work both ways. Nicolau understood that.

Now, you can can attack me or the message, or both. Its called deflection. When you dont have a valid argument 1) Attack the speaker 2) Change the subject 3) Deny the truth.

You're playing your hand really well. Too bad its been a losing hand. A pair of 2's aint gonna cut it (DOH C&Rs). We called your bluff (DFR). You're running out of chips (East resolve).

NRBAGFY

No nerve strike intended. You just don't get what you are up against. Do the math. They are not going to vote for your deal.

 

[luvthe9]

I think what's truly irrelevant is whether the list was accurate or whether MDA planes were flown on the certificate. It was accurate bat the time of arbitration, as certified by the east. Nicolau treated the MDA pilots as they were... the bottom of the list.

Lets' see how your 777 drivers and 76 jetzz stack up against Co same paywise if the going gets tough. You don't stack up so good right now.

 

[luvthe9]

Have you read the award?

We all know the recalls had occured, your pilot neutral wrote an opposing statement on the topic of the placement of those who had already been recalled.

They were recalled because of the merger, not prior to it, and that fact alone is why they are junior to the working pilots who did not need to be recalled.

I have to reply to the 330 comment because I am not sure what to make of it.

Is that some sort of jab that I will have the seniority to bid an equiptment type that you feel I do not have the right to bid? If the Nic was implemented today, I could not hold 330, but eventually I will have the seniority to hold it if I want to, if we still have them or a job. Here is the ironic part, the wait would not be as long as you think, and I truthfully really did not want one. But I am starting to think I may have an obligation to bid the thing to keep Bradford,Thuer, Cleary et.al.off of it. Kind of a payback for screwing the West pilots on the front side of this deal. I guess we already know how and why they would vote on any contract tenative agreement. (picture Theur making his decision and agonizing "must keep Nic4us from getting his 1/4th share of 330 seats") Meanwhile Nic4us drinks a beer in his hot tub having no ballot to cast as he refuses to join the union founded at the Seeham school of how to steal from your fellow employee.

While we are talking, how is that LOA93 grievence going?

LOA 93 Grievance? You guys are really out of the loop with regard to anything that doesn't give you your chance to steal someone else's space in line. It was completed months ago.

 

[Black Swan]

There's only one accusation. More of an assumption of your lack of integrity blinding your honest attempt at negotiating the seniority list. Oh that's right, it can only be DOH, right? Too bad the courts don't agree with you. I'll try not to put as much information in a post. It makes it easier for your older guys to keep up.

What was the purpose of putting in the EVP position and crowing about it, then you can't put up the horsepower to staff who you want? Now you guys are going to cry about the USAPA costing you money. What is it you really want?

 

[Black Swan]

Nobody on the east wanted to fund this thing, now we have to.

 

[Black Swan]

100k a year and for what? The West went full bore for this one, then didn't get enough guys to go for it. Now both sides are going to pay for nothing. What was this all about?

 

[luvthe9]

This is the big 2 assumptions people have a problem with. You are stating as a fact that they are "mainline aircraft" just because they used the US certificate. This is certainly not a hard and fast fact. It is opinion and can be argued either way. In fact It should have been argued by your union, but wasn't.

And the idea that an MDA captain position if worth more than a mainline f/o position is a far reach. I doubt you will find many that really agree with that, given the nature of the separate contracts.

How is a UAL job worth more than a CO pilot job? CO is light years ahead of UAL in all pay and pension categories. You are not going to be able to stack up very well either with the same logic you propose here!

 

[luvthe9]

I don't know about that. The Nicolau award solved the seniority problem fine, except not to the liking of one group. The problem is the east's narrow definition of seniority. Sorry, but in this profession seniority does not equal DOH. Seniority is what fleet and seat you are able to bid.

And you guys don't stack up against CO in any way. shape or form. If they compare you in any category, you get the short end of the stick.

 

[luvthe9]

Sure is easy to come over here though, and defend ALPA. Have fun making your case with the CO boyzz! UAL is not stacking up very high when you do the comparison. Good luck on their board.

 

[Phoenix]

There's only one accusation. More of an assumption of ....

Rush ahead bro. Rush ahead.

 

[Phoenix]

PHX,

Certainly you see the logic in the court system becoming involved when the union starts behaving like a Gorilla with no manners!!!!

according to your logic the MDA guys should not be challeging this whole issue then, it was an internal union matter that was "handled" by the local union officials and therefore considered over.

Which way do you want it?? cant have both.


Flip

I've completely lost faith in you bro. MDA was not an internal union matter.

 

[Phoenix]

I don't know about that. The Nicolau award solved the seniority problem fine, except not to the liking of one group. The problem is the east's narrow definition of seniority. Sorry, but in this profession seniority does not equal DOH. Seniority is what fleet and seat you are able to bid.

Attempting to define seniority after there is a need to define it is no solution.

You keep making the point well... the people collecting the dues did not have a definition of seniority. They set seniority adrift at sea and told the pilots to duke it out until they all ratify a new seniority list as part of the merged contract. Enjoy it... you paid the price of admission too.

 

[luvthe9]

This is the big 2 assumptions people have a problem with. You are stating as a fact that they are "mainline aircraft" just because they used the US certificate. This is certainly not a hard and fast fact. It is opinion and can be argued either way. In fact It should have been argued by your union, but wasn't.

And the idea that an MDA captain position if worth more than a mainline f/o position is a far reach. I doubt you will find many that really agree with that, given the nature of the separate contracts.

And the idea that a UAL widebody capt has the the same value as a CONTINENTAL widebody capt has is absurd. Good luck!