US Pilots Labor Discussion 3/11- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[Black Swan]

You are exactly correct about the "no distinctions" part. Neither Usapa nor you (or any other pilot employed here) can just pretend the seniority arbitration "didn't happen" merely because a different bargaining agent was involved. The laws have not changed regarding these matters. (well actually the seniority integration between different bargaining agent laws have changed, but that's a discssion not pertinent to this thread) In spite of what Usapa says, the Nic arbitration did take place, and its outcome has just as much credibility/validity as Usapa feels the upcomming snapback arbitration will have.

Unfortunately for you, Sir Seham, King Kleary, and his merry band of minions, the news is not likely to be good. IMHO

Project your failures on Cleary and Seham? Come on, you had your chance at WYE RIVER. You were warned by your exalted ALPA counsel, yet chose to be greedy and go for it all. That greed cost 250 of your fellow pilots their jobs, not Cleary or Seham. Easy to blame others for your own failures. I would imagine many of the angry posters on this board are the ones your side caused to hit the bricks.

 

[Black Swan]

Be really, truly thankful that there was a replacement CBA.

If not, you would be working as an "at will" employee under LOA 93 conditions, or worse.

And that is still the risk of forcing USAPA to fold up shop.

NYC- this west group is so angry they support LOA 93, and laugh at it. It will be used against them, by the company. How do they explain this to the 250 on the street? How do they continue to project their failures on Cleary and Seham? They were warned. I have heard they promised the furloughed they would have been back in six months! The failure rests squarely on their shoulders. They have maintained the divide the company uses against them every day. Then they blame USAPA!

 

[EastUS]

I would say that has more that a slight effect on USAPA and how this pig will finally be put together. You can pretend that the “miracle in the desertâ€￾ has no effect but it most certainly does.

You, at least for the present time, have your blessed injunction. What it hasn't, nor will get you is your lusted for nic list. The very, VERY best you can hope for out west is that nothing's diminished or dismised and your injunction stands. Then..."all" you have to do is figure out some magical method by which to get the east to vote it into existence. You're all virtually baring fangs and barking like rabid dogs about even the thought that the east even may see some enhanced wages...which you all must know would completely doom your wildest fantasies for any east voting in of the nic. Face it; you people are completely out of airspeed, altitude and ideas, and have nothing left to throw....except for the endless propoganda, patronizing, condescending and generally just mindless, hostile BS..none of which is ever going to get you anywhere.

You people like to come off as so seemingly certain of your success. Given that; How about kindly clue us all in as to when any contract containing the nic will arrive?. Drop the usual rhetoric and just tell us all. "Enquiring minds want to know"...Got nuthin' ?Umm...Hmm....the silence is deafening. I'm sure it'll be filled up with acidic but utterly meaningless west BS shortly though....It's a pattern that's been well established for almost three years now.

Bottom Line = Even, for the pure sake of argument, assuming that all your highest hopes come true and the east scores nothing in any of the current courtroom or arbitration issues being processed; Show us how you're EVER actually going to get your nic gift...without the east agreeing to hand it to you?...Anyone out west want to field that one? No matter.."Keep those cards and love letters coming..the audience is just eating 'em up!" 🙄

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

Project your failures on Cleary and Seham? Come on, you had your chance at WYE RIVER. You were warned by your exalted ALPA counsel, yet chose to be greedy and go for it all. That greed cost 250 of your fellow pilots their jobs, not Cleary or Seham. Easy to blame others for your own failures. I would imagine many of the angry posters on this board are the ones your side caused to hit the bricks.

So Swan, what river are you going to be getting greedy at when "your side" loses the arb on LOA63? The Swanee....LOL? Let us know ASAP; AOLwill want to know where they should send condolences......

Meanwhile, rest your brain with this: S R Boogie

 

[Metroyet]

If you are correct and the answer is no, then that too has serious and far reaching implications for labor law and practice - does it not?

KV

No. Absolutely Not. When a labor organization is allowed to ignore binding arbitration, exploit minorities, extort money, and found itself on bad faith and pretext...THAT has far reaching implications for labor law...Not a temper tantrum thrown by the AFOC.

To think otherwise is plainly laughable.

 

[Metroyet]

In this case it was on the labor side that a dramatic and almost unprecedented paradigm shift took place - a legacy pilot group ejecting ALPA. se.

Okay, aside from the AFOC as championed by "Black Swan" who gives a rats ### about that? 99% of Americans have no idea what ALPA is. The paradigm shift is in your head, nobody else cares.

 

[Metroyet]

And that is still the risk of forcing USAPA to fold up shop.

B.F.D. I'd jump at the chance to "fold" USAPA

 

[Hate2fly]

You, at least for the present time, have your blessed injunction. What it hasn't, nor will get you is your lusted for nic list. The very, VERY best you can hope for out west is that nothing's diminished or dismised and your injunction stands. Then..."all" you have to do is figure out some magical method by which to get the east to vote it into existence. You're all virtually baring fangs and barking like rabid dogs about even the thought that the east even may see some enhanced wages...which you all must know would completely doom your wildest fantasies for any east voting in of the nic. Face it; you people are completely out of airspeed, altitude and ideas, and have nothing left to throw....except for the endless propoganda, patronizing, condescending and generally just mindless, hostile BS..none of which is ever going to get you anywhere.

You people like to come off as so seemingly certain of your success. Given that; How about kindly clue us all in as to when any contract containing the nic will arrive?. Drop the usual rhetoric and just tell us all. "Enquiring minds want to know"...Got nuthin' ?Umm...Hmm....the silence is deafening. I'm sure it'll be filled up with acidic but utterly meaningless west BS shortly though....It's a pattern that's been well established for almost three years now.

Bottom Line = Even, for the pure sake of argument, assuming that all your highest hopes come true and the east scores nothing in any of the current courtroom or arbitration issues being processed; Show us how you're EVER actually going to get your nic gift...without the east agreeing to hand it to you?...Anyone out west want to field that one? No matter.."Keep those cards and love letters coming..the audience is just eating 'em up!" 🙄

EastUS,

You just don't understand. The westies have this all figured out. Remember they are all younger and smarter than us old guys back east. The desert judge took them as far as he could. The 9th is going to spank that desert judge and the westies. I am thinking when the 9th and LOA93 pay restoration goes the east way most of us from the east will retire from this board. We will just wait for the west to file the next DFR. I wonder if they will use the heart doctor next time? They should have listened to Freund. They sent him home at Wye River.....BIG MISTAKE!

Hate

 

[Hate2fly]

No. Absolutely Not. When a labor organization is allowed to ignore binding arbitration, exploit minorities, extort money, and found itself on bad faith and pretext...THAT has far reaching implications for labor law...Not a temper tantrum thrown by the AFOC.

To think otherwise is plainly laughable.

Metroyet,

Sounds like you are describing an underhanded union? Sounds like you have some skin in the game.

Hate

 

[luvn737s]

We'll simply agree to disagree on how "absurdly bad" any odds are, but fairly note that only the truly "weak minded" much fret over odds whenever pursuing a course they believe to be the correct path. Early west propoganda included actually "pathological", absurdly narcicisstic, and unquestinably "weak-minded" childish fantasies of somehow magically being the equals of King Leonidas at the Gates of Fire, who faced off against completely suicidal odds, but felt himself Duty bound to do so. Hmm...perhaps a bit more time spent yelling standard west variations of how "It's OVER..Get used to it!" and seeing them have not the slightest effect..coupled with the "Miracle in the Desert"..which again, hasn't actually had the slightest effect...well...maybe it's now current west "wisdom" to fret over odds? I can't keep up with the ever changing flavors of west propoganda. You folks flip over faster than pancakes at IHOP.

So the super senior are willing to maintain the status quo in order to deliver the merely senior (junior to the rest of the world) their entitled attrition? On the basis of what precedent do you suppose this would stand if a contract was presented for vote? Are the super senior just being protected from themselves by being denied a vote? The senior have thrown the junior under the bus for as long as buses have been available and will continue to based on past practice.

No, the contract will be provided with Nic in place and endorsed by USAPA. The senior (under USAPA provided cover) will vote with the West in the privacy of their own homes.

I can't say what day that will happen, but I'm sure there's a judge in Phoenix who knows what the limit of his patience is, and he could likely tell you.

 

[HPDriver]

Show us how you're EVER actually going to get your nic gift...without the east agreeing to hand it to you?

That's just it, the east IS going to hand it to us.

Once the appeal and snapback gets shot down, we'll see a new contract in under a year.

You know as well as I do that your east buddies say one thing and vote another. Your history is my proof.

I have the utmost confidence that your fellow pilots will screw each other again.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

That's just it, the east IS going to hand it to us.

Once the appeal and snapback gets shot down, we'll see a new contract in under a year.

You know as well as I do that your east buddies say one thing and vote another. Your history is my proof.

I have the utmost confidence that your fellow pilots will screw each other again.

HP, first of all, INTERNAL UNION DISPUTE!, we lost the battle when ALPA abandon us! THANK THE COMPANY IS A PARTY! remember that ( close look at even ALPA merger policy says company can reject for certain circumstance!) basically says unworkable better solution in A CONTRACT AVAILABLE! WE WERE SOLD DOWN THE WYE RIVER! MM! YOUR HOPING WILL NOT MAKE IT SO!

 

[Metroyet]

I have the utmost confidence that your fellow pilots will screw each other again.

I really have to take exception with this statement. The East pilots have ALREADY been screwing each other, themselves, and the West by violating their DFR and refusal to play fair. A vote for contract containing the NIC isn't one guy screwing the other. There is no choice. The next contract proposal WILL contain the nic. award. It's a Fact Of Life. It's like saying the West "won" the arbitration. It is what it is...it's hard to imagine anybody won anything in any of this...except Seham, the Company, and the enormously megalomaniacle Cleary.

 

[veritasaequitas]

Project your failures on Cleary and Seham? Come on, you had your chance at WYE RIVER. You were warned by your exalted ALPA counsel, yet chose to be greedy and go for it all. That greed cost 250 of your fellow pilots their jobs, not Cleary or Seham. Easy to blame others for your own failures. I would imagine many of the angry posters on this board are the ones your side caused to hit the bricks.

I agree with you sir. The West pilots were offered no furloughs at the Wye River meeting. In addition to this the West was offered half the E190 slots and a percentage of future 757 slots. The West leaders refused to budge because ALPA national told them not to and made them think that a combined contract would be approved by the ALPA MEC shills in the East, in the middle of the night. Not so fast, USAPA was voted in to preclude such a devious plan.

Black Swan, do the West pilots realize that in a future merger with United that has 1200 plus furloughs, at least half the West pilots would be furloughed? The United pilots have many furloughed pilots, with the latest "convenient' change of the ALPA merger policy now, it mandates recognition of date of hire and longevity.

 

[EastUS]

EastUS,

You just don't understand. The westies have this all figured out. Remember they are all younger and smarter than us old guys back east.

Indeed sir.If ever in doubt of that....just ask them. 🙄