US Pilots Labor Discussion 3/1- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[Metroyet]

Looking forward to another PM begging me for a dogfight!!

You get those from the resident "brave warrior" too? And here I thought I was special. :angry:

 

[HPDriver]

LOA 93 is covering the bills, and that means we can hang on for quite a while.

Years even.

Not for everyone it isn't.

Parents want their kids going to nice colleges so they don't end up flying airplanes for a living.

And just "covering bills" is not what many signed up for.

Snapback gets shot down and so does the last bit of resolve on the east.

The end is near.

 

[HPDriver]

Driver,

You are in a desert dream! Beat down and can't last much longer. That is a good one! The LOA 93 issue is straight forward...........I talked to DB and he feels very confident. USAPA did a great job.

MDA........ALPA doesn't want this thing going to trial. Watch what ALPA does? So far we are only out $3000 each.

The 9th will not change Labor Law...........Bybee would love to...........Tashima and Graber will do the right thing. This will be very devistating for the westies and your co-founders. Freund tried to tell you. Vasin sparred with Wilder and got spanked. Your desert judge turned this into his hobby. WOW, you guys owe alot of money. I would say you are making your lawyers wealthy. That's right you still owe them big bucks. Maybe we will try to get you parity with us on the LOA 93 pay restoration.

ALPA doesn't want to lose UAL...........Watch what ALPA does?

Hate

No dream Hate. I work in reality. The only straight forward issue with LOA 93 is that it's not going away. Even TP knows it's a lost cause. There will be no snapbacks in the real world.

MDA is irrelevant. July will put that one to bed for good.

The 9th denied USAPA an injunction and will rule against them as well. Case is ripe and we are already looking forward to the damages trial.

ALPA is not going to touch Nic because there is Federal law protecting it.

Nic is here forever!

HP

 

[HPDriver]

Supremely confident is our boy Cleary! We also talked change of control. Interesting stuff.

Hate

Cleary won't be there much longer.

 

[Metroyet]

Don't bet on it. We've endured it for 5 years now. The adjustment period is long ago over.

The toys are all gone, homes downsized, etc.

LOA 93 is covering the bills, and that means we can hang on for quite a while.

Years even.

Congratulations. That's quite a Legacy/Career you've carved out for yourself. All those missed events and family functions are must have been worth it. How nice it must be to know with certainty that your decades of effort are merely putting food on the table...like a day laborer.

Yep. You'll show them. Well played.

 

[EastUS]

I suggest that you go talk to the mechanics.

Great idea! While we're at it; shall we also talk to the mechanics about how their seniority was/is determined?...No?...didn't think so. Well heck...then why seek the counsel of people who clearly aren't sufficiently "intelligent" to fully appreciate the nic, and thusly, likely not the "wisdom" you seemingly have to offer labor groups everywhere.

 

[HP2USFA]

I swear there's a book in all of this.

Or at least a doctoral thesis.

 

[EastUS]

How nice it must be to know with certainty that your decades of effort are ........

Ummm...since the moment of what particular spiritual epihany are you now affording yourself even a brief pause to consider anyone's "decades of effort?" :blink: Hmmm...per ardent supporters of the nicster; decades of effort mean nothing....what's suddenly changed?

 

[end_of_alpa]

I swear there's a book in all of this.

Or at least a doctoral thesis.

Think that's funny, read this article posted here:

US regional growth could hinge on major airline labor negotiations

"Thursday March 11, 2010 The current round of pilot negotiations at US major network airlines "will be the most important since deregulation" and could determine the future growth path for the regional airline segment, according to William Swelbar, a research engineer at MIT's International Center for Air Transportation.

Speaking yesterday at the FAA Forecast Conference in Washington, Swelbar said that if unions representing mainline pilots agree to relax restrictions on the size and number of aircraft that may be operated by regionals in codeshare with majors, the pilots will become "irrelevant in the US domestic market 25 years from now." Currently, scope clause agreements typically limit the size of regional jets that may be operated under codeshare to 76 seats or fewer. But if, as some suggest, mainline pilots agree to raise the limit to up to 125 seats, regional airlines simply will assume most domestic flying.

Where's this guy been??? The pilot's are irrelevant NOW!!! LOL!

 

[pilot]

I swear there's a book in all of this.

Or at least a doctoral thesis.

There is a book. It will be about a pilot's union formed at the very beginning of the profession which was formed to protect and defend the profession. As the airline business matured this union slowly but surely fell into the realm of protecting individual pilot groups at the expense of the profession. Many different events within the business precipitated the selfishness. A national seniority list was never instituted and the union was doomed to failure. This single act focused the pilots on themselves and they truly believed that one group deserved more than another group based on the success or failure of the company they worked for.

Fast forward to today. Even without considering this debacle of two pilot groups acting like children. Much to the delight of an incompetent management. Simply because of selfishness on both parties due to a merger policy by the "union". Pilots of all airlines making less than car salesmen. Mini jets being Captained for wages less than McDonald's managers make. Pilot groups hoping that other airlines fail so their airline becomes stronger.

Pilot not realizing what it is they do for a living. Thinking they are equal to other employee groups. Not understanding they subsidize low ticket prices and incompetent management. Pilots just happy they have a "job".

The degradation of the the profession could have been stopped had the original union acted like a union. Now, there is not a pilot group in this nation that acts like a union. Not one.

Hell, they don't even know what a scab is.

It's all about the individual now. Just like our society. Me, me, me.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

A good title for that book should be" WHO IS FLYING THE LINE?" MM!

 

[nycbusdriver]

He said from his perch on the top of the mountain, oblivious to those in the valley below trying to eke out a living...

Jim

The point is, we have all adjusted by now. (Some others haven't adjusted well to retirement....they just don't get it.) But a great majority of us working on the east can survive indefinitely now on LOA 93 if it means keeping Nic at bay.

I make a point to ask every F/O I fly with (those who are NOT at the "top of the mountain") and every one has indicated that, given the choice, they want the looming attrition more than a raise.

The few on the east who "want a deal, any deal," are the F/O's who were hired at an age where they had no hope of upgrade anyway. They, of course, don't care about the Nicolau' they just want a raise now because that is the most advantageous to them. I don't blame them, but they don't have the numbers to sway a contract vote, especially if the contract up for vote is the joke commonly known as the Kirby proposal.

If all the dominoes fall against the east, we will still vote NO for the next five years or more. We are LOA 93 ready....and have proven that over the first 5 years of the agreement.

If Parker and Kirby are delighted at the prospect, so be it. Priorities have to be set, and if the mismanagers at the top get a side benefit, then that is just the way it is.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Congratulations. That's quite a Legacy/Career you've carved out for yourself. All those missed events and family functions are must have been worth it. How nice it must be to know with certainty that your decades of effort are merely putting food on the table...like a day laborer.

Yep. You'll show them. Well played.

You're barking up the wrong tree, Bucko.

My pay rate has been, and still is, far ahead of any west pilot. Except for about 6 months, I have been a block holder my entire 30+ years, and have never missed a significant family event.

I admit that my particular career has been charmed compared to most, but since you fired your shot at me, I had to respond.

Every west pilot has had a career that has paled compared to mine in every aspect. Except for the last five years, AWA has been the gutter group of the airline industry. I would be hesitant to throw stones at any east career so far. Overall, we have been well ahead of the west.

 

[RSVP767]

Some of you may want to still kiss the Führer's ring....but with this latest press release, he can kiss my........

but with this latest press release, he can kiss my........CACTUS!!!

 

[cleardirect]

You're barking up the wrong tree, Bucko.

My pay rate has been, and still is, far ahead of any west pilot. Except for about 6 months, I have been a block holder my entire 30+ years, and have never missed a significant family event.

I admit that my particular career has been charmed compared to most, but since you fired your shot at me, I had to respond.

Every west pilot has had a career that has paled compared to mine in every aspect. Except for the last five years, AWA has been the gutter group of the airline industry. I would be hesitant to throw stones at any east career so far. Overall, we have been well ahead of the west.

Great career path. Start at what you consider the top and retire at the absolute bottom of the industry. Nice downward spiral.

Did that take planning or just lucky?