US Pilots Labor Discussion 3/1- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[traderjake]

Has anyone considered the concept of "failed retirement?" Nothing better to do than sit around inveighing on topics that have passed you by?

Has anyone considered the concept of a "failed life".

Nothing better to do with your days off than try to justify your own immoral and unethical behavior.

 

[Richard]

Folks,

The attacks and discussion on Sully stop here. Next comment on Sully gets time off.

It has nothing to do with the subject of this thread.

It's amazing how difficult it is for this group to discuss the subject without hurling insults at others.....

 

[Pi brat]

Maybe you should re-read the posts. I was replying to nycbusdriver's post (I even quoted the part I was responding to). Hardly "jumping in". My facts stand, whether 25 year East pilots are on the E190 by choice or not they are still on it as I said.



Maybe responding to what I actually say would be a good start - not what someone else says or some context you put my words into. In the context of nycbusdriver's wide body left seat view of the world all I said was that those people on the E190, furloughed for half or more of their time at US and making less than some Express pilots, might not have the same view of their career as he had of his. I never said anyone's career was a failure, sucked, or anything like that.

Jim

As we learned in our first CRM class, communication is a hard act to master, and when you are not face-to-face it is really hard. The Internet is a great thing, but it sometimes makes communicating clearly difficult, and web boards may be the poorest vehicles. I have to admit that I'm not the greatest writer either. I guess they call these things threads for a reason, as they wonder around and often get tangled up. I will try this one last time.

This whole thing started with Otter talking about east "failed careers". I jumped in to counter that I didn't consider mine failed. Busdriver was using his T/A trip as an example of why his wasn't failed. Your jumping in was exactly as you said, when you pointed out that a 190 pilot's view wasn't as grand. The issue I have with that Jim is that the west guys have used the east was failed argument this whole time to justify some of their actions, with more than a little self-righteousness. When you add comments like that, as a former east pilot, you fuel their fire..."See Jim agrees and he's a former east pilot". You're entitled to your opinion, but you shouldn't be upset wither when someone counters you. You can get pretty defensive quickly too.

My thing is that AWA was no DL, or SWA. Who are they to be looking down their noses at anyone? Both of our airlines turned out to be on the lower tier of airlines, but from what I've seen, I got to fly for a greater one for a while(PI). That's the question of mine you never bothered to answer: how does a west pilot's career stack up to their peers? I think mine has stacked up better than any west pilot, so I see it as far from failed, even if it's far from perfect.

And that's all I have to say about that.

 

[cactusboy53]

Well, gee. That's exactly why the whole matter is in a court of law. Why should anyone want to prove it to you on an internet message board?

They will either PROVE IT in court, or not. That is the whole idea, and that is why the case is continuing.

And, thank God, you don't get to decide it, either.

And if USAPA doesn't like the result, you appeal to the next higher court. If they don't like that result, they appeal to the NEXT higher court. And so on, and so on, and so on...... During this legal melee "our" stellar legal counsel continues to advise USAPA that all is well and the next time it will be a slam dunk. See you in court....AGAIN. :bleh:

 

[BoeingBoy]

The issue I have with that Jim is that the west guys have used the east was failed argument this whole time to justify some of their actions, with more than a little self-righteousness.

As have the East guys used the "I made more", "lowest in the industry", "wide-body to Europe", etc. Seems to me there's enough self-righteousness to go around on both sides, including the post I initially responded to. Or is it only self-righteous when the West guys do it?

By "some of their actions" do you mean defending the NIC? That's some mighty "self-righteous" behavior, alright, and presumably makes Nic guilty of the same...

Jim

 

[Reed Richards]

I sense a great disturbance in the force.

RR

 

[Pi brat]

As have the East guys used the "I made more", "lowest in the industry", "wide-body to Europe", etc. Seems to me there's enough self-righteousness to go around on both sides, including the post I initially responded to. Or is it only self-righteous when the West guys do it?

By "some of their actions" do you mean defending the NIC? That's some mighty "self-righteous" behavior, alright, and presumably makes Nic guilty of the same...

Jim

Plenty of self-righteousness to go around, we are pilots, but I don't think I've ever defended east pilots when I see them doing it. I don't see where either side has much to brag about.

No, I don't mean defending the Nic. I expect them to do that, even if I don't think Nic got it completely right. If I were in their shoes, with their life experiences, I think I would feel the same. But, I think that if they were in mine, with my experience, they would feel as I do. At least those that have the same outlook on life. As you recall I have never said DOH was the only method, and I never thought it would get past a third party. From some west posts I feel very confident that had they been hired by US Air a few decades ago, some of them would have be USAPA leaders.

Still no answer to my questions...................

 

[Hate2fly]

RR,

Some very difficult decisions for the westies going forward!

Hate

 

[BoeingBoy]

Still no answer to my questions...................

The questions I've seen are of the "East has had it better than West because (insert reason here) and West didn't" variety. I guess one could call that self-righteous....

Jim

 

[Pi brat]

The questions I've seen are of the "East has had it better than West because (insert reason here) and West didn't" variety. I guess one could call that self-righteous....

Jim

Then you are not looking. Go back and try again, or leave me alone.

 

[Edward]

There are 2 of you & you know who you are that need to take it to pm if you wish to continue.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Deleted per Edward's admonition.

Jim

 

[cleardirect]

"Accordingly, the Plaintiff’s
remaining state law claims will be dismissed without prejudice so that
these claims may be re-filed in the appropriate state court."

"While the Court has concluded that such actions do not come
within the purview of RICO, it may well be that a Court of appropriate
jurisdiction will conclude that such actions do constitute violations of state
law and that injunctive relief is warranted to prevent this type of conduct
from continuing. Because the Court has concluded that subject matter
jurisdiction does not lie, however, the Court need not reach the issue of
whether injunctive relief would be appropriate based on the facts presented
in this case."

With and without predjudice findings.

Let’s look at the facts as they are today and go from there. Today the federal charges are dismissed with prejudice. That means that the court did not believe any of what USAPA had to say. Therefore when people continue to falsely accuse these guys of things, they are wrong and have reasonable knowledge that they are making false statements. A federal appeal does not change the fact that these guys are not guilty of anything.

As to the state charges. No charges have been filed. So continuing to make unsubstantiated charges with no evidence or charges pending is also wrong and libelous. Because people also have a reasonable knowledge that the charges have not been filed. What you just quoted proves that you know there are no charges in state court. At this point you need to stop saying false things.

Damaging someone’s reputation is a crime, I suggest that everyone stop with the RICO stuff. This board could become evidence in a counter suit as to damaged reputations and public ridicule. Putting some of these statement in front of a judge especially after the poster has reasonable knowledge of the facts will get expensive.

Big bucks boys. Just because USAPA said it does not make it true.

 

[CallawayGolf]

Let’s look at the facts as they are today and go from there. Today the federal charges are dismissed with prejudice. That means that the court did not believe any of what USAPA had to say. Therefore when people continue to falsely accuse these guys of things, they are wrong and have reasonable knowledge that they are making false statements. A federal appeal does not change the fact that these guys are not guilty of anything.

As to the state charges. No charges have been filed. So continuing to make unsubstantiated charges with no evidence or charges pending is also wrong and libelous. Because people also have a reasonable knowledge that the charges have not been filed. What you just quoted proves that you know there are no charges in state court. At this point you need to stop saying false things.

Damaging someone’s reputation is a crime, I suggest that everyone stop with the RICO stuff. This board could become evidence in a counter suit as to damaged reputations and public ridicule. Putting some of these statement in front of a judge especially after the poster has reasonable knowledge of the facts will get expensive.

Big bucks boys. Just because USAPA said it does not make it true.

Are you seriously suggesting USAPA supporters should look at the facts and heed proven legal counsel to prevent self-injury? I guess there is a first time for everything.

 

[HPDriver]

Then you are not looking. Go back and try again, or leave me alone.

Why are you getting so frustrated?

He's making great points that you can't counter.

If you want to be left alone, I suggest you leave the board. Otherwise, no crying.