US Pilots Labor Discussion 3/1- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[Metroyet]

The DFR verdict is in appeals court.

The LOA 93 is in the grievance phase.

The pilots contract is at this time being mediated by the NMB. (US Airways Pilots Request Mediation of Stalled Contract Negotiations ) Notice the quote in the article; "In April, USAPA requested an NMB facilitator to assist the parties in reaching an agreement, but that proposal was rejected by US Airways."

Your emotional and impatient opinions are irrelevant to the legal and proper course that USAPA is pursuing at this time.

For the America West pilots that have been working for up to 50 percent less than the rest of the industry from 1983 to 2005, this process is very recent history in comparison.

Uh Huh. Appeals court is doomed, Grievance is doomed, NMB does not exist as a lever for your union to violate the law, (newsflash). The "proper" course USAPA is legally mandated to follow is to present and defend the implementation of the Nic. award. Unlike binding arbitration, a permanent injunction isn't so easily evaded. You forgot to answer the most very basic question so I'll repeat. By "not cooperating" do you mean the West refused to be the willing victims and simply bend over and accept whatever your little band of fake unionists were espousing?

Do you understand how absurd this is when it's bounced back to you? Do you consider a homeowner who shoots a burglar in their house, in the middle of the night to be uncooperative? The West are absolutely, 100% "uncooperative" victims...that's probably self evident by now though isn't it ????

 

[cubfan]

Uh Huh. Appeals court is doomed, Grievance is doomed, NMB does not exist as a lever for your union to violate the law, (newsflash). The "proper" course USAPA is legally mandated to follow is to present and defend the implementation of the Nic. award. Unlike binding arbitration, a permanent injunction isn't so easily evaded. You forgot to answer the most very basic question so I'll repeat. By "not cooperating" do you mean the West refused to be the willing victims and simply bend over and accept whatever your little band of fake unionists were espousing?

Do you understand how absurd this is when it's bounced back to you? Do you consider a homeowner who shoots a burglar in their house, in the middle of the night to be uncooperative? The West are absolutely, 100% "uncooperative" victims...that's probably self evident by now though isn't it ????

Metro,

Just a quick question, by permanent injunction, what do you mean? That the NIC is the list moving forward, or do you mean it will be put in use today and all operations will be based on this as if we had a combined contract. I for one feel that it will end up being the list used, but not until a combined contract.

 

[cleardirect]

Only when someone tells me how bad mine sucks. I can be defensive as anyone. Try saying something about my family!

It's my opinion Jim, not an urban legend. Urban legends can be proven wrong. We can't go back and undo history to see how things would have turned out. I've never been a DOH or bust guy, but I agreed with Mr. Brucia about the palcement of the furloughed pilots.

So are you saying that if the minority opinion of one from Mr. Brucia would have been followed all would have been right and you and the east pilots would have cheerfully agreed to live with the Nicolau award?

Are you sure you understand what he said?

The Chairman's wisdom and experience dealt
with these and many other issues in a fair and equitable manner.

At a minimum, it is my opinion that the US Airways pilots, who had already
received notice of their opportunity to return to work from furlough, should have received
some consideration for the substantial time they have already invested in their airline.

Finally I would like to a reaffirm my opinion that the Chairman Nicolau
demonstrated exceptional judgment and wisdom working through many very difficult and
challenging issues including the disparate aircraft types, routes, compensation systems,
and pilot staffing formulas to mention just a few. It has been a privilege to work together
with Chairman Nicolau and Captain Gillen on this Opinion and Award.

So what you want is to ignore the PID date and reset it to some other more favorable time to the east. Next if you read he is only talking about the 300 pilots that were recalled between March 2006 and January 2007 not all of the furloughs. So the east has delayed the merger for 5 years and given away hundreds of millions of dollars over 300 furloughed pilots and where the minority thinks they might have been placed.

What exactly did he think that those 300 pilots should have gotten? “Some considerationâ€￾ that's it. Not DOH, not to be placed senior to the AWA pilots just SOME consideration. That seems like a very small point in the context of 5000 pilots and the cost to all of us.

 

[ChuckBewFarley]

"Youse" guys at America West were not cooperating with the union from the very beginning, that certainly did not help.

America West cooperation video during a USAPA meeting

That's as helpful as Scotty Theuer saying our 'seniority is like crew meals, they are negotiable'. That statement told our entire pilot group exactly how you were going to deal with us. You were going to grab anything and everything you could from us.

Scotty tells us how things are Did I just disagree with myself?

Yet Scotty can argue relative seniority for the east-Scotty speaks from both sides of his mouth

 

[JetMonkey]

And as far as the very beginning, that wasn't it.. When both merger committies got together and started negotiations and the east proposed DOH and nothing else, THAT was the very beginning.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Only when someone tells me how bad mine sucks. I can be defensive as anyone. Try saying something about my family!

If you recall, I only mentioned the E190 pilots in response to a post. Who was it that brought your career into the discussion? Wasn't that you? Would you care to quote any of my posts where I said that your career "sucks"? I will say this - you seem very defensive for someone who claims to be satisfied with your career...

Jim

 

[aquagreen73s]

That's as helpful as Scotty Theuer saying our 'seniority is like crew meals, they are negotiable'. That statement told our entire pilot group exactly how you were going to deal with us. You were going to grab anything and everything you could from us.

Which, among a whole mountain of other unequivocal statements and actions by USAPA and the East pilot group, effectively removed ripeness as an issue in this case. Seham must know it, otherwise he wouldn't have conjured up a rule of law that does not exist: the "ripeness cannot begin until ratification" argument. If a claim wasn't ripe until a ratification vote, then a whole host of claims (not DFR related) would not be ripe when any principal (even those outside of the union-member relationship) sues their agent. It's a preposterous argument that cannot be found anywhere in the law, which is exactly why Seham couldn't find a single case which supported his position.

 

[nycbusdriver]

If you pay money to usapa, you have hired and pay lee seham for his service.

Do I need to define the word "personal" to you, too?

 

[nycbusdriver]

Usairways acquired 757's, a330-2's and e190's after the merger. We on the west have every right to those shared seats per the TA and LOA's.

Yup. And the Nic is a done deal, too.

How are all those things working out for you?

 

[HPDriver]

Yup. And the Nic is a done deal, too.

How are all those things working out for you?

Just a matter of time.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Wake can impose the implementation of the Nic. award given a strong enough reason to do so.

Dream on. Such a move is exactly a contractual cram down. Wake is smart enough not to go there.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Just a matter of time.

Yes. I admit that's true.

At least five years. More likely ten.

 

[EastUS]

I'm glad all of these videos are immortalized on YouTube.

The West fought back...something the garden variety Cowards ......

Indeed yes. What could possibly be more worthy of worldwide viewing, or put the piloting "profession" in a finer light than to have some perpetual adolescent yelling out..for all the world to see and hear: "You know why I hate you guys!!"..."I hate all of you'se!!"...over nothing more than not getting a shiny new toy 757 in the timeline his petulant imagination demanded..and I won't dwell further on the fabulous "Goat Video".....Words aren't really adequate for all the immense pride that serious aviators everywhere must indeed share with the west when viewing such "productions".

Sigh...I see we're back to the heroic internet typing against the "Cowards"

Lord in Heaven....the profession has truly deteriorated to a level I'd never even dreamed possible in youth. What's the extent of airline companies employment screening these days?...having a certificate and a pulse? There's just no possible way I'd ever suggest that any intelligent and talented youth enter into commercial aviation in these sorry times.

 

[flyinawa]

Dream on. Such a move is exactly a contractual cram down. Wake is smart enough not to go there.

Keep telling yourself that. Maybe it will make it an easier pill to swallow.

 

[OTTER574]

Which, among a whole mountain of other unequivocal statements and actions by USAPA and the East pilot group, effectively removed ripeness as an issue in this case. Seham must know it, otherwise he wouldn't have conjured up a rule of law that does not exist: the "ripeness cannot begin until ratification" argument. If a claim wasn't ripe until a ratification vote, then a whole host of claims (not DFR related) would not be ripe when any principal (even those outside of the union-member relationship) sues their agent. It's a preposterous argument that cannot be found anywhere in the law, which is exactly why Seham couldn't find a single case which supported his position.

You know what would be fun?

Put lee seham followed by steve bradford on the witness stand (something we tried during the liability trial) and see which one of these men would point their finger most at each other in the court room on cross examination about who, why and what formed usapa?