US Pilots Labor Discussion 2/17- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[cleardirect]

Clear,

I have put together some of the things Freund has said over the past couple of years......maybe you didn't get the memo!

1- Jeffrey Freund - Notice of Removal July 24, 2007

Thus, the “arbitration award†Plaintiffs purportedly seek to “vacate†is in actuality the proposed pilot seniority list developed through ALPA’s Merger policy that ALPA will adopt as its bargaining position to be presented to the Company, but which (like a union bargaining position in any matter) the Company is not required to accept. Application, Ex.1 at 2,9 (ALPA will present to the company the merged seniority list developed through ALPA’s Merger policy arbitration procedures, and “ALPA will use all reasonable means at its disposal to compel the company to accept and implement the merged seniority listâ€). Plaintiffs seek review of this ALPA bargaining position developed through ALPA Merger Policy, and, while couching it in the terms of “vacating†and “arbitration,†the relief they actually seek is a review of the product of ALPA’s Merger Policy, and, ultimately, alteration of ALPA’s bargaining proposal to the company…Plaintiff’s Application to “vacate†an “arbitration award†that does not establish any enforceable seniority rights in a collective bargaining agreement with the Company, but which merely sets out ALPA’s bargaining position to be presented to the company, is not a state law claim at all but rather an artfully pled Federal claim for breech of Duty of Fair Representation.

2- email to JRBaker/Stravers/JMac

* I think the pressures and risks are all on your side of the transaction, not the US Airways side.

*The judge who has been sheparding US Airways along for the last three years and two bankruptcies will not let it collapse.

* If flying tips to AAA during the transition period, even if we get a “good†integration, AAA pilots will be in seats and a “no bump/no flush†provision will keep them there until a system bid allows seniority to operate unrestricted. That is not a good result for AWA pilots.

As you can see from the above Freund was trying to help you guys and as usual you didn't listen.

Hate
MV

Now that I know this I am ready to throw in the towel. It must be over for the west. No wait, I have seen this before. You did read it before you posted it right? Take a look at the date. July 24, 2007. USAPA did not start until April 2008. Now are you making the connection that there is no difference between ALPA and usapa that it is the same pilots just a different name? That will be helpful during the damages trial thanks.

If you pay attention to the language and remember the dates. This was July 2007, the company ACCEPTED the list Dec 2007. Therefore it was no longer a proposal but an ACCEPTED list. Also remember this was from the law suit that the east MEC filed against the west MEC. Yes the east pilot started the legal war.

As far as the e-mail. How about putting the statement in context? What pressure and risk was he talking about? I can only assume that he might be talking about the negotiation during the transition agreement phase.

As far as the last quote. I completely agree and that is exactly what happened. But that says more about the integrity of the east pilots and the actions you all have taken than about anything else.

So what does Freund have to do with anything in the last two years about this merger? Now in today’s reality the risk has shifted to the east. Currently there is a federal injunction requiring the use of the agreed to arbitration award. A damages trial is waiting in the wings. The east pilots are losing way more money than the west guys. It is time for the east to catch up with the present and the reality of what we have now. ALPA is gone, Freund is no longer involved, the old US Airways is gone, AWA is gone. USAPPA is the bargaining agent and they have a responsibility to get a new and improved contract. If USAPA is unable to get a contract what good are they?

 

[cleardirect]

This is taking a long time. If it were a statement that Wake was in bounds, it would have come back fairly quickly one would think. The legal clerks doing the heavy lifting are digging deep into the ripeness issue. I think Wake was out of bounds, and you are going to find out soon why the Honorable Neil V. Wake had a "hard time sleeping." You don't sleep well when you consciously make a bad legal decision. It is that simple,

Really.

If judge Wake is so obviously wrong, where is the stay of the injunction from the ninth?

I guess they just don't see the harm of having that injunction in place.

 

[Hate2fly]

Now that I know this I am ready to throw in the towel. It must be over for the west. No wait, I have seen this before. You did read it before you posted it right? Take a look at the date. July 24, 2007. USAPA did not start until April 2008. Now are you making the connection that there is no difference between ALPA and usapa that it is the same pilots just a different name? That will be helpful during the damages trial thanks.

If you pay attention to the language and remember the dates. This was July 2007, the company ACCEPTED the list Dec 2007. Therefore it was no longer a proposal but an ACCEPTED list. Also remember this was from the law suit that the east MEC filed against the west MEC. Yes the east pilot started the legal war.

As far as the e-mail. How about putting the statement in context? What pressure and risk was he talking about? I can only assume that he might be talking about the negotiation during the transition agreement phase.

As far as the last quote. I completely agree and that is exactly what happened. But that says more about the integrity of the east pilots and the actions you all have taken than about anything else.

So what does Freund have to do with anything in the last two years about this merger? Now in today’s reality the risk has shifted to the east. Currently there is a federal injunction requiring the use of the agreed to arbitration award. A damages trial is waiting in the wings. The east pilots are losing way more money than the west guys. It is time for the east to catch up with the present and the reality of what we have now. ALPA is gone, Freund is no longer involved, the old US Airways is gone, AWA is gone. USAPPA is the bargaining agent and they have a responsibility to get a new and improved contract. If USAPA is unable to get a contract what good are they?

Clear,

You keep missing that one word with respect to the company...............IMPLEMENT!

Hate

 

[HPearlyretiree]

Clear,

You keep missing that one word with respect to the company...............IMPLEMENT!

Hate

You keep missing that on word with respect to USAPA.........BINDING!

 

[Black Swan]

The longer the decision is taking the more I am convinced that the 9th is likely looking at a conflict of laws, such as the ripeness issues vs. the public policy issues of finality of arbitration vs. DFR. I still think that the public policy of finality of agreed upon arbitration will win. But I think there is some heavy writing and re-writing of an opinion going on in SFO.

One can only imagine the looks those legal eagle assistants are giving each other as they try and make sense of what went down in the Desert Court, and they actually see how far the Desert Judge got involved in an INTERNAL UNION DISPUTE. He should have minded his own business.

 

[Black Swan]

You keep missing that on word with respect to USAPA.........BINDING!

No, you don't get it. ALPA- binding. USAPA-new bargaining agent. Deal with it!

 

[BoeingBoy]

Clear,

You keep missing that one word with respect to the company...............IMPLEMENT!

So since the pay restoration to LOA 84 rates hasn't been IMPLEMENTED the restoration is null and void?

Since the increases in the TOS rates for the E190 weren't implemented immediately upon signing the transition agreement they're no longer valid?

A permanent bid award isn't implemented immediately so it doesn't exist?

See where that game can take you? And before you say "But the contract allows that" remember that the contract allows for a delay in implementing the accepted seniority list.

Jim

 

[cleardirect]

Clear,

You keep missing that one word with respect to the company...............IMPLEMENT!

Hate

Are you saying that the company can implement the list on it's own?

It is USAPA that is preventing the implementation of the contract.

 

[cleardirect]

No, you don't get it. ALPA- binding. USAPA-new bargaining agent. Deal with it!

Do you consider the transition agreement to be a contract?

 

[BoeingBoy]

No, you don't get it. ALPA- binding. USAPA-new bargaining agent. Deal with it!

So if the company loses the LOA 93/84 pay arbitration, they just reincorporate as US Air and the new company ignores the arbitration - deal with it?

Jim

 

[Freebird]

No, you don't get it. ALPA- binding. USAPA-new bargaining agent. Deal with it!

When your mortgage company sells your loan to another bank, did you tell them you didnt have to abide by the terms since the companies are different?

When you got married, did you take your husbands name? And therefore negate all your obligations?

The 'Desert' Judge is a lot smarter than you think. Your posts are amusing though. Keep 'em coming.

So Parker says "Sorry, Usapa but LOA was under ALPA...different 'union', are you going to change your tune? Or keep lying to yourself. Again, spare me the song and dance when we fly together.



Hope to see you at the demolition derby this weekend. Im driving a '79 Ford Granada, still lookin' for a few more sponsors.

 

[ChuckBewFarley]

No, you don't get it. ALPA- binding. USAPA-new bargaining agent. Deal with it!

So you are saying that the LOA 93 grievance is futile because it was signed with the previous CBA?

Seems that you are rewriting the rules as you play. Either everything from the previous CBA sticks or nothing sticks.

What is it? This circular argument is giving me a headache.

We will never have a contract because of the the Nic (VNIIMN) yet you ask for a mediator to move the process along but we're happy to stay at the LOA93 rates to screw the west.

 

[nic4us]

It is USAPA that is preventing the implementation of the contract.

Clear,

You answered your own question. "If usapa is unable to get a contract what good are they?".

They are good at preventing the implementation of contracts. They are good at wasting your money to pay for the damages they are causing you. They are good at throwing up obstacles to harm the company, the pilot group, and organized labor in general.

In the simplest of terms, they are good at being worthless.

 

[HPearlyretiree]

No, you don't get it. ALPA- binding. USAPA-new bargaining agent. Deal with it!

No, you don't get it, forming a new union to wuss out of an agreement is the work of cowards.

 

[Freebird]

Just found this little piece of legal jargon;

Any dispute arising under Your use of the Service, these Terms of Service, or with XYZ Wireless shall be resolved using a binding arbitration process.

The binding arbitration shall be held in San Diego County, California, in the English language, and under the rules of the American Arbitration Association (AAA).

You and XYZ Wireless agree to be bound by any decision in the arbitration, and not to appeal any arbitration decision to a court system.



I wonder if XYZ Wireless knows that this disclaimer is worthless (in the eyes of Usapa), they should be on the lookout for Seham and Cleary...