US Pilots Labor Discussion 2/17- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[Phoenix]

ALPA has nothing to offer. Of course what USAPA offers is despicable incompetence, pernicious leadership, and ultimately total despondence for the east pilots as they fail to produce any tangible benefit to the east or west.

Start your own thread if you want... the post you attempted to respond to was about the Goat Man. We love Goat Shoap. Three cheers. All together now.

 

[Hate2fly]

Hi MC, it wouldn't surprise me if you are the MC. We're gonna get enough money together and sue you guys posting on here, you will be called the USAirs 18. Shoot, we already have more 'evidence' against you guys than you ever had against our 18. You guessed it, it'll get tossed out as quickly as your suit was, most likely. But what the heck, you guys are criminals too.

Lynyrd,

This board is a representation of all of our individual thoughts. I have to laugh when you westies talk about getting money together to file another law suit. We (the east types) have told you guys you will never get us to vote for the Nicolau award. Everyone from Freund, Parker, Kirby, Prater, Wake and even Nicolau realize that we will never vote to wreck the remaining time we have left in this job. The east pilot group could care less what you think you deserve. We have every right to vote no on any agreement that includes Nicolau. No one will ever take that away from us. Your co-founders have put you guys in a bad spot. The 9th is going to dig in deep to the RLA. This was an internal union dispute. This should have been handled by the System Board. Wake should have studied up on the RLA. The 9th is going to set you back big time. Again, I feel sorry for you guys. You should have listened to Freund at Wye River.

Hate

 

[nic4us]

The east pilot group could care less what you think you deserve. We have every right to vote no on any agreement that includes Nicolau. No one will ever take that away from us. Your co-founders have put you guys in a bad spot. The 9th is going to dig in deep to the RLA. This was an internal union dispute. This should have been handled by the System Board. Wake should have studied up on the RLA. The 9th is going to set you back big time. Again, I feel sorry for you guys. You should have listened to Freund at Wye River.

Hate

Fortunate for us, what you care or care less about has no bearing on how this will end.

The System Board? Was Rakestraw handled by the Systems Board?

By the way, we do listen to Freund, and he says that what usapa is trying to do is illegal, we agree, so does the company's lawyer, R Siegal, who happened to be there at Rakestraw.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Hate, I wasn't talking about a real lawsuit about your posts here, that would be preposterous, just like your RICO suit was. Sueing people for web posts for crying out loud. I was using the absurd to point out the absurd.

 

[cleardirect]

Lynyrd,

This board is a representation of all of our individual thoughts. I have to laugh when you westies talk about getting money together to file another law suit. We (the east types) have told you guys you will never get us to vote for the Nicolau award. Everyone from Freund, Parker, Kirby, Prater, Wake and even Nicolau realize that we will never vote to wreck the remaining time we have left in this job. The east pilot group could care less what you think you deserve. We have every right to vote no on any agreement that includes Nicolau. No one will ever take that away from us. Your co-founders have put you guys in a bad spot. The 9th is going to dig in deep to the RLA. This was an internal union dispute. This should have been handled by the System Board. Wake should have studied up on the RLA. The 9th is going to set you back big time. Again, I feel sorry for you guys. You should have listened to Freund at Wye River.

Hate

Let’s take a look at this mess. First you tell us that these are individual thoughts. Then immediately become a group telling what “WEâ€￾ will or will not do. Are these indidual thoughts or do you speak for the entire east pilot group. I thought Black Swan had that job, after all he is MC.

If the east pilots “WEâ€￾ don’t care what the west pilots think we deserve. They why do you think that the west pilots care what you/â€￾WEâ€￾ think that you deserve? You got what you deserve with the Nicolau award. The ninth is going to give you what you deserve and Kaser is going to give you what you deserve in the LOA 93 grievance.
We have every right to vote no on any agreement that includes Nicolau. No one will ever take that away from us.

That is a pretty confident statement with no way to back that up. Circumstances can change that makes your vote moot.

Just because we are an airline does not make the RLA all controlling. Tell me this. If as you say DFR cases should have gone to the system board how can there ever have been other DFR cases? Should those have not gone to the system board? Rakstraw, Ramey, ect. Also what is the make up of a system board? Yep four east pilots deciding the fairness of an east proposal placing the west pilots at the bottom of the list. I guess in usapa land that is your definition of fair.

You really need to get over Freund. Wye river was two years ago. Besides you guys really should NOT have listened to Seham. Tell me. When the ninth rules in favor of Wake will you admit you should not have listened to Seham or will you ignore the facts and everyone else that has agreed with the west?

 

[Black Swan]

Start your own thread if you want... the post you attempted to respond to was about the Goat Man. We love Goat Shoap. Three cheers. All together now.

Phoenix, you crack me up. I too am voting for the Goat Man. I'm hoping to syndicate the entire thing after the dust settles. Between the mailings of rocks, dog droppings and the threats, the West is finally coming up with some reputable candidates. I am going to make sure the guys know how good Dave is. The cream DOES rise to the top.

 

[Black Swan]

Hate, I wasn't talking about a real lawsuit about your posts here, that would be preposterous, just like your RICO suit was. Sueing people for web posts for crying out loud. I was using the absurd to point out the absurd.

I am getting this. The absurd, using the absurd, to point out the absurd. On another note, next time we have a USAPA meeting in PHL, stop by. It is at the PHL short. Go Goat Man!

 

[cleardirect]

Phoenix, you crack me up. I too am voting for the Goat Man. I'm hoping to syndicate the entire thing after the dust settles. Between the mailings of rocks, dog droppings and the threats, the West is finally coming up with some reputable candidates. I am going to make sure the guys know how good Dave is. The cream DOES rise to the top.

Has usapa gone and changed the rules again? Can pilots based in one domicile vote for a rep in another domicile?

Oh I forgot, you are being absurd.

BTW when the fourth circuit throws this case out on it's ear you are going to have to stop saying non sense like this. You really should stop saying it now. Since the case has been dismissed.

 

[Hate2fly]

Let’s take a look at this mess. First you tell us that these are individual thoughts. Then immediately become a group telling what “WE†will or will not do. Are these indidual thoughts or do you speak for the entire east pilot group. I thought Black Swan had that job, after all he is MC.

If the east pilots “WE†don’t care what the west pilots think we deserve. They why do you think that the west pilots care what you/â€WE†think that you deserve? You got what you deserve with the Nicolau award. The ninth is going to give you what you deserve and Kaser is going to give you what you deserve in the LOA 93 grievance.
We have every right to vote no on any agreement that includes Nicolau. No one will ever take that away from us.

That is a pretty confident statement with no way to back that up. Circumstances can change that makes your vote moot.

Just because we are an airline does not make the RLA all controlling. Tell me this. If as you say DFR cases should have gone to the system board how can there ever have been other DFR cases? Should those have not gone to the system board? Rakstraw, Ramey, ect. Also what is the make up of a system board? Yep four east pilots deciding the fairness of an east proposal placing the west pilots at the bottom of the list. I guess in usapa land that is your definition of fair.

You really need to get over Freund. Wye river was two years ago. Besides you guys really should NOT have listened to Seham. Tell me. When the ninth rules in favor of Wake will you admit you should not have listened to Seham or will you ignore the facts and everyone else that has agreed with the west?

Clear,

I have put together some of the things Freund has said over the past couple of years......maybe you didn't get the memo!

1- Jeffrey Freund - Notice of Removal July 24, 2007

Thus, the “arbitration award†Plaintiffs purportedly seek to “vacate†is in actuality the proposed pilot seniority list developed through ALPA’s Merger policy that ALPA will adopt as its bargaining position to be presented to the Company, but which (like a union bargaining position in any matter) the Company is not required to accept. Application, Ex.1 at 2,9 (ALPA will present to the company the merged seniority list developed through ALPA’s Merger policy arbitration procedures, and “ALPA will use all reasonable means at its disposal to compel the company to accept and implement the merged seniority listâ€). Plaintiffs seek review of this ALPA bargaining position developed through ALPA Merger Policy, and, while couching it in the terms of “vacating†and “arbitration,†the relief they actually seek is a review of the product of ALPA’s Merger Policy, and, ultimately, alteration of ALPA’s bargaining proposal to the company…Plaintiff’s Application to “vacate†an “arbitration award†that does not establish any enforceable seniority rights in a collective bargaining agreement with the Company, but which merely sets out ALPA’s bargaining position to be presented to the company, is not a state law claim at all but rather an artfully pled Federal claim for breech of Duty of Fair Representation.

2- email to JRBaker/Stravers/JMac

* I think the pressures and risks are all on your side of the transaction, not the US Airways side.

*The judge who has been sheparding US Airways along for the last three years and two bankruptcies will not let it collapse.

* If flying tips to AAA during the transition period, even if we get a “good†integration, AAA pilots will be in seats and a “no bump/no flush†provision will keep them there until a system bid allows seniority to operate unrestricted. That is not a good result for AWA pilots.

As you can see from the above Freund was trying to help you guys and as usual you didn't listen.

Hate
MV

 

[hp_fa]

The longer the decision is taking the more I am convinced that the 9th is likely looking at a conflict of laws, such as the ripeness issues vs. the public policy issues of finality of arbitration vs. DFR. I still think that the public policy of finality of agreed upon arbitration will win. But I think there is some heavy writing and re-writing of an opinion going on in SFO.

 

[Metroyet]

Tell me. When the ninth rules in favor of Wake will you admit you should not have listened to Seham or will you ignore the facts and everyone else that has agreed with the west?

That's a rhetorical question right?

 

[Black Swan]

The longer the decision is taking the more I am convinced that the 9th is likely looking at a conflict of laws, such as the ripeness issues vs. the public policy issues of finality of arbitration vs. DFR. I still think that the public policy of finality of agreed upon arbitration will win. But I think there is some heavy writing and re-writing of an opinion going on in SFO.

This is taking a long time. If it were a statement that Wake was in bounds, it would have come back fairly quickly one would think. The legal clerks doing the heavy lifting are digging deep into the ripeness issue. I think Wake was out of bounds, and you are going to find out soon why the Honorable Neil V. Wake had a "hard time sleeping." You don't sleep well when you consciously make a bad legal decision. It is that simple,

 

[Black Swan]

The longer the decision is taking the more I am convinced that the 9th is likely looking at a conflict of laws, such as the ripeness issues vs. the public policy issues of finality of arbitration vs. DFR. I still think that the public policy of finality of agreed upon arbitration will win. But I think there is some heavy writing and re-writing of an opinion going on in SFO.

After the latest backing down by the judge, I believe someone told him he burned his toast. Gotta give it to you guys, you got a lot of mileage out of the Desert Judge. He went WAY overboard for the home team!

 

[BoeingBoy]

If it were a statement that Wake was in bounds, it would have come back fairly quickly one would think.

Just as one would think that if it was the case that Judge Wake were clearly out of bounds the decision would have come quickly. "Clearly" one way or the other doesn't require heavy lifting, just reciting the applicable precedents. So I'll go with HP FA's summary - weighing the merits of the opposing effects any ruling will have, which does require heavy lifting.

Jim

 

[nic4us]

The longer the decision is taking the more I am convinced that the 9th is likely looking at a conflict of laws, such as the ripeness issues vs. the public policy issues of finality of arbitration vs. DFR. I still think that the public policy of finality of agreed upon arbitration will win. But I think there is some heavy writing and re-writing of an opinion going on in SFO.

I agree, and as I have said in the past, the 9th will write something into their opinion that usapa will misinterpret and latch on to in a further attempt at stalling the inevitable.