US Pilots Labor Discussion 2/10- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[cleardirect]

They all have seem to forgot about "PROJECT ZANZIZBAR"

If only you could have gotten that to Nicolau in time all would have been different. I find it amusing that you go back to 5 years old PROPOSAL (remember that word).

Answer this, was it ever implemented? No! That is because at the PID it was US Airways that was in BK not America West.

Care to wager. If you go to corporate HQ right now they will have two or three or four different BK plans. You will also find two or three or four plans to grow the airline. I bet you would also find a couple of project XXXXX for mergers. That is hopefully what corporations do is plan ahead for different events.

When you retire from the Nicolau list at your retirement party you can call it the Zanzibar retirement party. put it on your headstone who cares it is irrelevant 5 years after the arbitration.

It appears that you all are running out of excuses and having to rehash discredited arguments.

This is what the federal court had to say about it during the trial. I guess the judge pretty much sums up what bringing up Zanzabar is.

MR. STEVENS: And I was entitled to follow up.
Project Zanzabar is a rank hearsay statement by Mr. Parker in
circumstances not under oath, and the whole history of that is
nothing more than a threat.

THE COURT: There's some easy calls and some hard
calls. This one is an easy call. This is wildly excessive
under Rule 403. Unfair surprise, extraneous issues, waste of
time, confusion and this subject is excluded. So let us
proceed.

 

[EastUS]

You guys don't want us seperate, you just want date of hire with all of us in your right seats. Absent that, my oh my, the drama.

"You guys don't want us seperate," I can only speak from what I've seen, heard and believe. I've yet to work with or talk with anyone that wants a combined op, including myself. I would/will be very well pleased to see seperate ops for the duration of my time here.

"you just want date of hire with all of us in your right seats." Not at all true. I wouldn't willingly trade the fine people I'm priveleged to have in the right seat for your group...."my oh my, the drama" is but one reason amongst many.

 

[EastUS]

You will also find two or three or four plans to grow the airline.

Where and how do they keep those so well hidden?

 

[EastUS]

East,

Isn't it correct that in the first Nicolau award with the Shuttle pilots, you guys started with DOH and after realizing some of the Eastern hire dates the shuttle guys had, changed to a position of merging them based on their W-2's. Wouldn't you call that a disenfranchisement of those with more years worked and duties performed ?

Sounds like you have a severe case of Situational Ethics.

If you say so. My "situational ethics" regarding that mess were the following: I'm ex EAL myself, exiting EAL years prior to Lorenzo's greed-soaked madness destroying the once great airline. Although I'd resigned from EAL and had no notions that my EAL DOH should be in play for myself; I personally had zero problems with the idea of allowing the shuttle guys their EAL DOH. I figured they pretty much had continuous service, despite the changeover in paint schemes and paychecks. This view was not shared by all by any means. The truly "horrible deal" they did end up with was much the same as my own in any case = "You resigned from EAL and started eleswhere..." With the "merger"-from-hell we're dealing with here....umm..I can't recall anyone resigning from US or AWA as part of that process. I certainly believe that al AWA people should have their entire time in service respected, despite the fact that AWA no longer exists, the paint schemes/etc have changed....Umm...So what am I missing here within my "situational ethics" distresses?

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

After watching the continuing back and forth concerning possible 9th rulings, I've noticed a concern that's been touched on a time or two but never, fully addressed.

(Disclaimer: I am not a pilot or employee of USAirways, if this has been asked/answered already my apologies for the repeat)

For the sake of this discussion, assume the 9th has ruled in favor of USAPA on the basis of ripeness.

The East and West positions aside, what position will USAirways Management take?

As a few posters have noted, accepting the Nic award was part of the Transition Agreement, but even putting that aside for the moment, what would motivate the Company to accept anything other than the Nic, knowing full well the West would again begin litigation once that occurred?

Why would the company accept a list other than Nic, knowing it potentially could subject them to litigation for violating the TA, but additionally, if they did implement a list other than Nic, they would also shoulder the financial burden of un-doing any list they may have put in place ( pilot retraining, repositioning, etc ), if/when the West prevailed in the resulting DFR?

 

[luvthe9]

After watching the continuing back and forth concerning possible 9th rulings, I've noticed a concern that's been touched on a time or two but never, fully addressed.

(Disclaimer: I am not a pilot or employee of USAirways, if this has been asked/answered already my apologies for the repeat)

For the sake of this discussion, assume the 9th has ruled in favor of USAPA on the basis of ripeness.

The East and West positions aside, what position will USAirways Management take?

As a few posters have noted, accepting the Nic award was part of the Transition Agreement, but even putting that aside for the moment, what would motivate the Company to accept anything other than the Nic, knowing full well the West would again begin litigation once that occurred?

There would be no more litagation ,the west does not have the money and most of the pilots out there are fed up with the cactus 18 that are causing all this.

 

[HPearlyretiree]

Somebody hit the Victrola. The needle's stuck.

I keep asking "what part of binding, do you not get?" because no one out east has the stones to answer. You all whine about promises not kept, but dummy up when its the promises you won't keep.

Of course, ethics are just for someone else, right?

You can't run from the elephant in the room, you made a promise and are reneging on it. Pretty cowardly behavior.

 

[nic4us]

nic4,

I see we are back to how much money AWA had in 2005. Cash on hand 115 Million just days before hitting the 100 million covenant............................................... Pay you back, that is great!

Hate

No, we were talking about what you had on the day of the merger, or at least a fragmentation where you left with what you had before.

Whether or not AWA came close to bankruptcy in the last quarter of 2004 is irrelevent, we did not enter bankruptcy and had a profit first quarter 2005. Then in the second quarter we were flush with cash to the tune of I believe the number was 3.6 billion, that was raised to buy your bankrupt airline. But I digress.

Regardless of either of our prior airlines financial positions, or in your case lack thereof, you will payback the jobs and incomes you have looted by ways of your unconscionable behavior. Damages trial coming soon.

 

[nic4us]

Why would the company accept a list other than Nic, knowing it potentially could subject them to litigation for violating the TA, but additionally, if they did implement a list other than Nic, they would also shoulder the financial burden of un-doing any list they may have put in place ( pilot retraining, repositioning, etc ), if/when the West prevailed in the resulting DFR?

The short answere is they won't.

They are not going to abet usapa and end up holding the bag next time enjoined in the suit. They were named in the original suit and were released. Also they have testified at trial that as far as they were concerned, the Nic is it, end of discussion.

 

[N924PS]

There would be no more litagation ,the west does not have the money and most of the pilots out there are fed up with the cactus 18 that are causing all this.

I believe the West pilots have the resolve and the funding to see it through another trial.

It would be probably be worth it to them just to see Steven Bradford on the witness stand.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

There would be no more litagation ,the west does not have the money and most of the pilots out there are fed up with the cactus 18 that are causing all this.

The Addington and Cactus 18 cases are related?

 

[Phoenix]

I keep asking "what part of binding, do you not get?" because no one out east has the stones to answer. You all whine about promises not kept, but dummy up when its the promises you won't keep.

Of course, ethics are just for someone else, right?

You can't run from the elephant in the room, you made a promise and are reneging on it. Pretty cowardly behavior.

Putting your fingers in your ears is not the same as "There is no answer."

Subsequent to an agreement to binding arbitration, the entire pilot group enacted an hortatory constitution by means of a free, fair, and lawful election. I know, I know... plenty of people deny that it was free and fair, and they deny the hortatory nature of the new constitution that supersedes (supplants ) the old one... but... Wake forgot to school anyone about what they decided in their new constitution.

The irony of course is that the only reason there ever was an arbitration among "brothers" in the "union" of ALPA was that the previous Constitution (get it yet) let the leadership shirk any responsibility in a seniority integration, but instead mandated the "union brothers" figure it out, or go to arbitration. The ALPA constitution (Eh..?) was the only thing that required the arbitration, and it allowed ALPA to deny any culpability.. errr. responsability... uh.. glory.. for the outcome... so they thought.

Fact is.. all the pilots voted in a new Constitution (Eh?) and no body has pointed out any issues wit dat.

What part of OUR Constitution don't WE understand? (see.. its so easy.. tastes great. less filling... ... your turn.).

By the way, how come the cashier won't accept confederate bills?

 

[luvthe9]

I believe the West pilots have the resolve and the funding to see it through another trial.

It would be probably be worth it to them just to see Steven Bradford on the witness stand.

Maybe you can start a fund on the east side to help you fellow west brethren, Be sure to say hello to Buddy for me.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

The short answere is they won't.

They are not going to abet usapa and end up holding the bag next time enjoined in the suit. They were named in the original suit and were released. Also they have testified at trial that as far as they were concerned, the Nic is it, end of discussion.

While I have read here in several posts the Comapny had made the statement that the Nic was the list, I was unaware that this had actually been stated in court. I see now how that would indeed cement their respective position going forward.

 

[luvthe9]

The Addington and Cactus 18 cases are related?

The Cactus 18 are facing some very serious charges and they know it, USAPA as offered a solution but so far they have not accepted some could be career ending if found guilty but will see.