US Pilots Labor Discussion 12/27- OBSERVE THE RULES OF THE BOARD!

[Tiger 1050]

Black Swan,

As one of our fellow east pilots said to me the other day. They are both great guys (Dave and Mike) with totally different styles. With Mike he is coming through the front door with the double barrel shot gun. Dave is a Pit Viper. Both styles work effectively to kill the enemy.

Not one vote will be changed in the east based on the relationship between Dave and Mike......

Hate

And you guys wonder why your history is the way it is... You're (the east) like an irrational enraged fighter wildly swinging at everything! Always have been... Like I have asked recently, have you figured out what the common denominator is in all your woes in your history? I just gave you a big hint.

 

[Black Swan]

And you guys wonder why your history is the way it is... You're (the east) like an irrational enraged fighter wildly swinging at everything! Always have been... Like I have asked recently, have you figured out what the common denominator is in all your woes in your history? I just gave you a big hint.

Thanks Tiger. always appreciate a helping hand from a Westie. I would imagine the lifeline to be greased and studded with nails.

 

[nic4us]

Yes, sometimes it is a T/A. Many times however, it is a LOA...........This time, it would absolutely be a LOA.

Go to your next domicile meeting, write a resolution, get it up to the BPR, get your LOA written, and once again prove to the court your intentions to break the law, and the permanent injunction. Great plan when heading into a damages trial.

 

[ClueByFour]

Yes, sometimes it is a T/A. Many times however, it is a LOA...........This time, it would absolutely be a LOA.

No, it won't. The company won't increase the East pay absent a joint contract, USAPA trying to decrease the west pay will result in an injunction to stop it (either by Wake or another DFR), and USAPA not fighting the company on imposing LOA 93 on the west will result in another DFR.

You guys just don't get it--your options with ALPA were (and remain with USAPA):

Status quo. Or a joint contract with Nicolau.

No amount of Cleary chest-thumping or majority abuse will change those choices. None.

I shudder to think that anyone who thinks otherwise is actually allowed to fly an airplane.

 

[aquagreen73s]

I shudder to think that anyone who thinks otherwise is actually allowed to fly an airplane.

There's plenty out there, but nevertheless the safety of jetliners today is a testament to modern engineering.

 

[Hate2fly]

Exactly. DC doesn't like Cleary. The West HATES Cleary. I like DC, but we need Clearys' vision in this war, and it is full on war. You want the biggest hardcore fighter going forward, and we already have the man for the job. All you have to do is mention him, and Luvn, Clear and Driver practically levitate.


Black Swan,

Levitate that is great!

The westies are in desperation mode.

All we have to do is go 1 for 3 and we blow them out of the water!

Even if we get blown out of all three major items we still have our massive attrition in less than 3 years.

The 9th, LOA93 pay restoration and MDA.

There is very little downside for those of us in the east!

Good luck!

Hate

 

[Flippin43]

Exactly. DC doesn't like Cleary. The West HATES Cleary. I like DC, but we need Clearys' vision in this war, and it is full on war. You want the biggest hardcore fighter going forward, and we already have the man for the job. All you have to do is mention him, and Luvn, Clear and Driver practically levitate. Going forward. If the LOA 93 grievance is lost, could a possible Plan B offer up a LOA to help the company in this tough environment, and bring all pilot groups into alignment with regard to pay and vacation until a CBA is ratified? Is it possible a vote could be floated and make this happen with majority?

Mr. Swan,

Bringing west pay down to east pay, would be a DFR if initiated by usapa.

Bringing east up to west rates till a CBA occurs. First that is a violation of the injunction which inspires usapa to negotiate for all LCC pilots. and Second Doug Parker and crew have stated many times that parity comes with a CBA, not before. If you have info that he has changed his mind in some way on this, please share it with us.

Anyway, you have the majority and have had the majority for some time. It is not a secret that the majority wants a raise. How has that worked for you so far?? What will voting on an LOA that you cannot get do for you?

Clearly your interest in this, points to the myth that "everybody is fine with LOA 93 rates" is indeed a myth. As is your confidence in some twisted snapback logic. If its guaranteed as some predict, why then do you need a LOA to get you a raise.

A little to much spin going on.


Flip

 

[BoeingBoy]

All we have to do is go 1 for 3 and we blow them out of the water!

Sorta like playing Powerball - buy 3 and all you have to do is go 1 for 3 and easy street here you come. All you have to do is ignore those long odds against even having one winning ticket....

Jim

 

[AWE Dog]

And you guys wonder why your history is the way it is... You're (the east) like an irrational enraged fighter wildly swinging at everything!

Enraged fighter? And who brought a case to court that may not be ripe?

 

[luvthe9]

Sorta like playing Powerball - buy 3 and all you have to do is go 1 for 3 and easy street here you come. All you have to do is ignore those long odds against even having one winning ticket....

Jim

But somehow people still manage to win even when the odds are against them, time will tell.

 

[HPDriver]

More cheap entertainment from the uniformed chunk head.


If something really "goes without saying" then one doesn't need to publish anything "saying" anything. He just acknowledges guilt by attempting to NOT answer to it.

Of course those rationally thinking West Coasters have been telling the East what Ciabottoni just did for over a year now but...you know. What do the lesser experienced whipper snapper 40+ year olds know about character.

You must be that guy whose house is on fire and you keep telling everyone its just a little smoke.

Well, its not, as Cleary's latest blast shows.

But you keep on spinning if it makes you feel good on the inside.

 

[HPDriver]

Keep thinking that.

Awesome response.

Very insightful.

 

[cactusboy53]

Enraged fighter? And who brought a case to court that may not be ripe?

Not enraged. Calm, cool & methodical. The only parties that "claim" the case is "not ripe" or "will never see the light of day" is USAPA & Seham. Keep up the good work.

 

[Flippin43]

Sorta like playing Powerball - buy 3 and all you have to do is go 1 for 3 and easy street here you come. All you have to do is ignore those long odds against even having one winning ticket....

Jim

Jim,

Especially so since at least one of them (MDA) doesn't have the effect that they think it has. The east MC explained this to Nicolau, he understood it for what it was, and moved on with placing MDA guys where they should be.


Flip

 

[HPDriver]

Exactly. DC doesn't like Cleary. The West HATES Cleary. I like DC, but we need Clearys' vision in this war, and it is full on war. You want the biggest hardcore fighter going forward, and we already have the man for the job. All you have to do is mention him, and Luvn, Clear and Driver practically levitate.


Black Swan,

Levitate that is great!

The westies are in desperation mode.

All we have to do is go 1 for 3 and we blow them out of the water!

Even if we get blown out of all three major items we still have our massive attrition in less than 3 years.

The 9th, LOA93 pay restoration and MDA.

There is very little downside for those of us in the east!

Good luck!

Hate

There is quite a bit of downside for those in the east.

You just had your smartest union officer resign. Your Grievance Chairman stated that the chances of winning the LOA 93 arbitration are non-existent because the union. MDA is about to disappear, and the 9th is going to rule against the east before the end of the month.

And Cleary is now looking to complete a contract sooner rather than later:

We expect the decision from the Ninth Circuit soon, based upon the urgency with which the Court addressed the now accomplished briefing schedule and oral argument.
It is my great hope that this will bring to an end the divisive struggle so that we may focus together on the thousand points that we have in common as airline pilots. We can and must find a way to capitalize on our disparate backgrounds to accomplish our goals of creating a new union and finishing our contract negotiations. We can do that by using differences as a broadening of our knowledge base and by respecting each other’s rights to opinions and points of view without personalizing the debate. We must embrace the best from each of our previous airlines as we consolidate the contracts into one.

Doesn't sound like he's a VNIIMN hardliner like the rest of you are. Guess the reality of a rough January/February are setting in.

And just how long do you thing it will take after the Feb 1 hearings for snapbacks for the east to hear anything. I bet nothing comes out before December 2010, if ever!!!

And good luck on that wishful thinking. Three years is a long time and most of the east isn't going to wait.

Its over.