US Pilots Labor Discussion 12/27- OBSERVE THE RULES OF THE BOARD!

[BoeingBoy]

Not as big of a deal as you out west try to make it to be.

Boy...who would have thought that the questions about pay parity at nearly every crew news session in CLT for a year or so were asked by West ringers...

Jim

 

[HPDriver]

Boy...who would have thought that the questions about pay parity at nearly every crew news session in CLT for a year or so were asked by West ringers...

Jim

I think those are the same guys who have very successful businesses outside of flying and don't really need to come back, but they fight like hell to keep Nic away.

 

[nic4us]

OK, here is some meaningful information. I know of NO ONE who is getting tired of USAPA..............................................................

You guys will give birth to bricks when we start upgrading 150-200 F/Os per and you upgrade 15-20 per.

Cooler heads need to prevail here.......but if you STAY THE COURSE and try to cash that lottery ticket......go to Craker Barrel and get a rocker and a blanket......you will need it.

VNIIMN

Well, obviously the usapa EVP, who just resigned is tired of it.

Now we get to see if usapa can violate DOL election rules a second time and have the FBI show up in CLT again.

Actually, I will give birth to a brick if a West pilot is elected EVP, got a feeling at least one famous movie producer will run.

 

[HPearlyretiree]

OK, here is some meaningful information. I know of NO ONE who is getting tired of USAPA. Some say we need a better contract, we need better vacation BUT WE DO NOT NEED NIC. I tried to tell you guys months ago that our over 60 guys are now pulling down 130-160k per year and another 28-48 per year PBGC and more than a few 0-5s and 0-6s getting a check from Uncle at 15k-25k per. Our old guys (me be one) will not sell out the F/Os and many junior Captains, junior includes 20-25+ years here for an extra 10-20k per year for the few remaining years they will be here. Remember, final average earnings don't mean squat anymore. USAPA ain't going anywhere. Outside financial forces will determine our fate, not NIC, WAKE etc. You guys will give birth to bricks when we start upgrading 150-200 F/Os per and you upgrade 15-20 per.
We have all adapted. Remember the old joke: What will survive the nuclear winter: Cockroaches and US Airways!!!!!!!!Lets discuss what we know that you know but don't give much thought. If there is ever a single CBA DP will draw down PHX the same day......or at least start making plans to. Cooler heads need to prevail here.......but if you STAY THE COURSE and try to cash that lottery ticket......go to Craker Barrel and get a rocker and a blanket......you will need it.

VNIIMN

Don't care whether you want Nic. You will have Nic, too freaking bad.

Nic is fact, the sooner you realize it the better. USAPA is a joke, a union forged out of spite, poorly run and falling apart quickly.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I think those are the same guys who have very successful businesses outside of flying and don't really need to come back

If you mean that to refer to the "We don't care about LOA 93" bunch, I can see that as a possibility. "Doing the pilot's bidding" USAPA apparently thinks the East pilots aren't content to live with LOA 93 since it's already grieved the pay snapbacks and a lot of the East posters seem to be really interested in that extra pay - including those who claim more outside income than US pays.

In other words, there's a lot of bluster about LOA 93 being no big deal but actions speak louder than words...

Jim

 

[cleardirect]

Black Swan,

Freund warned the west that all the risk was on their side. They had a seniority proposal that was not enforceable. You westies should have listened to your lawyer!

Oh well, you guys are young and smart.......great combination! Too bad you had a premature adjudication.

That ripeness issue is going to be a rough one for the west!

Hate

What risk? The DFR case was decided, usapa is liable. The federal injunction will make it enforceable. If usapa is closed down by east pilots the company uses the list.

BTW the east should not have listened to your lawyer. Katts or Seham. Stand on LOS, Liable of DFR way to go. The ninth circuit is going to find it ripe, it will be the east that has a tough time dealing with bad legal advice.

Enjoy the new year. Count down clock ticking to ??????

 

[cleardirect]

Cleary is doing exactly what we want him to do. We control him and the BPR...........it is just that simple.

Hate

Make him touch his nose and jump on one foot. Come on!

 

[ClueByFour]

The 4 years are going to come due and the west is going to collect for every day that this integration was delayed.

Not entirely true. The West may collect the money due it for legal fees. Not voting a joint contract has always been a possibility since the ink was dry on the transition agreement.

What is truly amazing is that several thousand east pilots were suckered into thinking the Nicolau award would go away as the primary driver for USAPA.

That ripeness issue is going to be a rough one for the west!

It costs money. Absent that, all it really proves is that USAPA will get pimp slapped (again) when it goes to try anything but Nicolau as a list. So you get to lose again at some point.

Cleary is doing exactly what we want him to do. We control him and the BPR...........it is just that simple.

The easy one here is to remark "stupid really is as stupid does." It overlooks a learning opportunity. The ALPA NC did exactly what the pilots wanted, and went all-in in arbitration. Got NIC. Presumably, the BPR did what the pilots wanted and chased a DOH list, an action which is about to get the Nicolau award enshrined in federal case law (post-appeal). At what point do the folks who are telling your leaders what to do remove the rectal-cranial inversion and realize it's not working?

 

[TheBadCat1313]

For you east folks advocating no union at all, I have a few questions for you: If you are successful at decertifying USAPA and reverting to an "employment at will" situation,

1) Where do you stand in case of a merger of LCC with another carrier?

2) Where do you stand in case of a BK filing by LCC?

Thanks,

BadCat

 

[Freebird]

OK, here is some meaningful information. I know of NO ONE who is getting tired of USAPA.

You must have a small group of friends. East pilots...are tired of the circus. Just because they dont come on this webboard, to show their dissatisfaction doesnt mean its not there. Usapa is holding them 'hostage' too, put a Contract up for a vote...lets see if it passes.

As Usapa continues to fail, the dissatisfaction will grow out East.


Some say we need a better contract, we need better vacation BUT WE DO NOT NEED NIC.


Some as in the East pilots? Well then it must be so. You see, every one else party to this mess has agreed on the process. Your majority is the only wrench in your defense. Watch how fast things change, when it is determined that Cleary and co. arent negotiating in "good Faith" as ordered by Wake. A little jail time will be a Wake Up call, hmmm?

I tried to tell you guys months ago that our over 60 guys are now pulling down 130-160k per year and another 28-48 per year PBGC and more than a few 0-5s and 0-6s getting a check from Uncle at 15k-25k per. Our old guys (me be one)

They'll start retiring to get away from this place.

will not sell out the F/Os and many junior Captains,

Your history will repeat itself, always has.

junior includes 20-25+ years here for an extra 10-20k per year for the few remaining years they will be here. Remember, final average earnings don't mean squat anymore.

USAPA ain't going anywhere.

It may not go anywhere. Fine. But neither will the NIC, the sooner you learn to comply with the arbitration and court order, the better it will be for the entire airline.

Outside financial forces will determine our fate, not NIC, WAKE etc.

Those outside sources have a sneaky way of determining your fate, dont they? Say when its time to vote on a contract. In the privacy of their own home, most will vote YES...to move on. The fight is over, you lost. Say what you want about the Federal Court system, how dare they try to Trump the East pilot resolve. Please.



You guys will give birth to bricks when we start upgrading 150-200 F/Os per and you upgrade 15-20 per.
We have all adapted.

And you will adapt with the NIC in place as well. Hear the crumbling yet?

Remember the old joke: What will survive the nuclear winter: Cockroaches and US Airways!!!!!!!!Lets discuss what we know that you know but don't give much thought. If there is ever a single CBA DP will draw down PHX the same day......or at least start making plans to.

There will be a single CBA. Your fantasy is far from true. We dont all live in PHX, so it really not that much of a threat.



Cooler heads need to prevail here.

They will prevail, sooner than you think.

......but if you STAY THE COURSE and try to cash that lottery ticket......go to Craker Barrel and get a rocker and a blanket......you will need it.

Start making care packages for your USAPA leadership.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Really! Please explain how Jetblue (no union) just negotiated a contract?

They don't have a contract, per se. (They may call it a contract, but it has no legal standing absent a cerrtified bargaining agent.) They do have a reasonable company (we don't) that listens to their pilot advisory board and then comes up with an mutually agreeable company policy on pilot compensation.

If the JetBlue BOD hired Parker, Kirby and Hemenway tomorrow to replace those equivalent positions, that company policy would probably be systematically gutted, and the pilot advisory board would have no recourse because they have no legal standing.

 

[nycbusdriver]

You can wonder all these issues, forever. Tell me ONE item of ALL your combined predictions that has come true for the East?

Um. We got more than 200 cards and formed an independent union?

How's that?

 

[Hawkhunter]

Its a bid deal for sure out in the east. Most are staying quiet while they await the decision of the appellate court and the company's move regarding snapbacks.

After USAPA fails to deliver on both of those, LOA93 is going to be a REALLY BIG deal.

Keep thinking that.

 

[Hawkhunter]

Boy...who would have thought that the questions about pay parity at nearly every crew news session in CLT for a year or so were asked by West ringers...

Jim

Are you that bored that all you have is this board? Get a life....

 

[Poug Darker]

So....

Who is happy with Mr. Cleary's decision to NOT prosecte the LOA 93 pay cut expiration grievance?

I am not.

Just a few more days, we will see if the pilots stand tall and unified behind bold leadership, or if DP relaxes with a cold one, enjoying the satisfaction of the return on a good investment...

Ok, this is news to me...can you provide black and white documentation that the grievance is not going forward? A reliable source? A well-founded rumor?
I would not be happy either. Please elucidate and educate us on the particulars.
Thanks