US Pilots Labor Discussion 12/27- OBSERVE THE RULES OF THE BOARD!

[Flippin43]

Please explain to me which sections of the collective BARGAINING agreement aren't subject to bargaining.

You are correct and mine was a bad choice of words. However you cannot deny that seniority in mergers has been left to the Union to sort out. Mgt would rather not get involved etc. They let the union policies generate a list as was done here at LCC. This leaves them lawsuit free and their hands clean with regard to seniority. ie they do not get involved with negotiating seniority. usapa wishes to change this and bring the company to the table about seniority. The result of forcing the company to get involved with a process that has been left largely to the unions to sort out (changing past practice) will have far reaching effects when it is the company who wants something different.

So basically, it is correct that all sections of the contract are "Negotiable". But section 22 has largely not been the subject of negotiations . usapa wishes to change this and upset the apple cart.

Flip

 

[Black Swan]

What ya gonna do when they don't come to you? Be bad boys, bad boys?

What do you think the company is going to do? Pay or not pay?

Well, at least there is a chance on it happening. I was looking in the contract on how to contractually grieve a depressed housing market. Let me know what section it is in.... Speaking of needing a raise......

 

[Black Swan]

Looney Wagon....or a carefully orchestrated strategy that so far has been a resounding success? Think about it. The East so far has got their DOH list and enjoys all the benefits of the merger without any of the downside. They've kept their airline and jobs alive for another 4+ years. They still have the Bid Sheet, they're going to HNL and ANC, the Nic. so far is only a piece of paper, a CBA and combined ops. years away, with attrition soon to kick in.

I bet you'll find few if any east pilots willing to climb off that wagon. They know exactly what they're doing.

Exactly Pacemaker. The wannabe lawyers here want to debate all the little hairs of the argument. You pretty much summed it all up. Kind of like one guy on the ground shaking his fist at a B-2 just as the bomb bays open...... Argument over.

 

[HPearlyretiree]

Exactly Pacemaker. The wannabe lawyers here want to debate all the little hairs of the argument. You pretty much summed it all up. Kind of like one guy on the ground shaking his fist at a B-2 just as the bomb bays open...... Argument over.

It doesn't take a lawyer, wannabee or not to understand that 3 sides signed binding arbitration, and 2 sides followed through. It did take jurors however...and we all know how that went. No "little hairs" in that argument.

I swear, the rhetoric from the east is getting more and more desperate, scary stories about housing markets, and PHX and all that. Its what I expect, scare tactics in lieu of any meaningful information. It never changes. In order to scare people, you must have some credibility.

 

[Freebird]

Exactly Pacemaker. The wannabe lawyers here want to debate all the little hairs of the argument. You pretty much summed it all up. Kind of like one guy on the ground shaking his fist at a B-2 just as the bomb bays open...... Argument over.

Actually, the argument was over when both MECs went to Binding Arbitration.

It was underlined by the NIC. It was upheld by the company (Hemingway) acknowledging in court that they "already have a list, and its the NIC".

It was again "over" when the 9-Panel jury found USAPA guilty of DFR.

It will be over, again, when the SF Courthouse rules.

It will be over when the Snapback wages fail to materialize.

It's only a matter of time. A lot less time than you may think, out east. The NIC will stand. It's Non-negotiable. Put a contract up for the membership to vote on, and it will pass. Its just a matter of time. The east resolve is crumbling. They are getting tired of USAPA's circus. USAPA is running out of options.

 

[boeingplt]

It's only a matter of time. A lot less time than you may think, out east. The NIC will stand. It's Non-negotiable. Put a contract up for the membership to vote on, and it will pass. Its just a matter of time. The east resolve is crumbling. They are getting tired of USAPA's circus. USAPA is running out of options.

There's no place like home, there's no place like home {peeks}...oh schlitz!....There's no place like home...

 

[HPDriver]

How about those home values in PHX and LAS? Looks like both sides are screwed. Wait, LOA 93 expires in, lets' see, 3 days.........

The only thing that expires in three days is that silly countdown clock on the USAPA website.

Nothing else.

 

[HPDriver]

How about those home values in PHX and LAS? Looks like both sides are screwed. Wait, LOA 93 expires in, lets' see, 3 days.........

Don't worry about our home values. They'll come back up eventually. In the mean time, we're having no problem paying our mortgages because we're not flying under LOA 93.

 

[HPDriver]

Well, at least there is a chance on it happening. I was looking in the contract on how to contractually grieve a depressed housing market. Let me know what section it is in.... Speaking of needing a raise......

First, there is NO chance of it happening, so get it out of your mind.

Second, for you to have to bash the west via the housing market is weak, at best.

Very weak. Kind of desperate even.

So sad.

 

[Black Swan]

Looney Wagon....or a carefully orchestrated strategy that so far has been a resounding success? Think about it. The East so far has got their DOH list and enjoys all the benefits of the merger without any of the downside. They've kept their airline and jobs alive for another 4+ years. They still have the Bid Sheet, they're going to HNL and ANC, the Nic. so far is only a piece of paper, a CBA and combined ops. years away, with attrition soon to kick in.

I bet you'll find few if any east pilots willing to climb off that wagon. They know exactly what they're doing.

All the replies were extremely entertaining. Bottom line is this, and you cannot deny it. NOTHING has changed over here. All the rants, chants, and lawyering -nothing but smoke. Nothing. You have done nothing that will combine this airline. You will never be able to do anything to combine the seniority lists. Pacemaker has beautifully summed up the entire situation. Checkmate!

 

[HPDriver]

All the replies were extremely entertaining. Bottom line is this, and you cannot deny it. NOTHING has changed over here. All the rants, chants, and lawyering -nothing but smoke. Nothing. You have done nothing that will combine this airline. You will never be able to do anything to combine the seniority lists. Pacemaker has beautifully summed up the entire situation. Checkmate!

Yawn.

The 4 years are going to come due and the west is going to collect for every day that this integration was delayed.

It sure is checkmate, but the east is on the wrong end.

 

[HPDriver]

Wonder why Cleary is going to drop $50K for a BPR meeting to discuss the vacant EVP position.

I thought it was pretty cut and dry as to how to handle the vacancy.

Guess not. But at least the buffet will be good.

 

[Black Swan]

Wonder why Cleary is going to drop $50K for a BPR meeting to discuss the vacant EVP position.

I thought it was pretty cut and dry as to how to handle the vacancy.

Guess not. But at least the buffet will be good.

You can wonder all these issues, forever. Tell me ONE item of ALL your combined predictions that has come true for the East?

 

[HPearlyretiree]

All the replies were extremely entertaining. Bottom line is this, and you cannot deny it. NOTHING has changed over here. All the rants, chants, and lawyering -nothing but smoke. Nothing. You have done nothing that will combine this airline. You will never be able to do anything to combine the seniority lists. Pacemaker has beautifully summed up the entire situation. Checkmate!

Tell you what, stop working after the first. You can have a nice moral victory.

Then, after you are fired, USAirways will be that much better off.

 

[Black Swan]

Actually, the argument was over when both MECs went to Binding Arbitration.

It was underlined by the NIC. It was upheld by the company (Hemingway) acknowledging in court that they "already have a list, and its the NIC".

It was again "over" when the 9-Panel jury found USAPA guilty of DFR.

It will be over, again, when the SF Courthouse rules.

It will be over when the Snapback wages fail to materialize.

It's only a matter of time. A lot less time than you may think, out east. The NIC will stand. It's Non-negotiable. Put a contract up for the membership to vote on, and it will pass. Its just a matter of time. The east resolve is crumbling. They are getting tired of USAPA's circus. USAPA is running out of options.

Yes, the East resolve is crumbling. They just can't wait to vote away the bid sheet, sap, their 330 seats, the 767 seats, and all the upcoming retirements. What constitutes "east resolve crumbling" other than something you have convinced yourself of? You are going to have to do better. Tokyo Rose did a better job!