US Pilots Labor Discussion 12/27- OBSERVE THE RULES OF THE BOARD!

[luvthe9]

Its bad enough that you're referencing Motley Fool. Its even worse when its a blog on Motley Fool.

Next time you go through ORD talk to the agents they know where he just bought.

 

[HPDriver]

Next time you go through ORD talk to the agents they know where he just bought.

Ya, gate agents. I'll get right on that.

Parker's alleged purchase of a house in ORD is completely missed by the media, but some blogger on Motley Fool gets the scoop.

How about using some common se...

...never mind.

 

[cleardirect]

Next time you go through ORD talk to the agents they know where he just bought.

How about the Cook county clerk? I would take that as a more reliable source. Maybe a record of a home purchase under the name Doug Parker.

 

[Richard]

How about getting back on subject-the rumor about Doug's real estate transactions and a merger which may or may not happen is NOT relevant to the topic of this thread.

 

[Black Swan]

Why would the PHL ALPA LEC get put into trusteeship? Perhaps bad faith and concealment is just par for the course.

Perhaps they broke ranks with ALPO Nat'l which had a hand in pension theft, extraction of fees for the management of subsequent DC monies. 33 yrs. of ALPO hands in my pockets was long enough. You can manufacture your own personal reasons, but you weren't there. The bottom line why we broke ranks? The lack of backbone of ALPO to ever establish a Nat'l seniority list. Too late for us, but for the New ALPO, you know, the one made up of all the regionals- those are the ones that need the list now. Plus, we had one of our pilots making massive cash extractions in an executive position, over 200 k while we got no help from Nat'l. The end of that situation became a personal goal for many of us.

 

[Black Swan]

Laughing at a union brother’s possible loss of a job or domicile. Quite a class act some of you east guys are. If there was any doubt why karma has slapped the east around this should explain it.

Might want to do some reading into the history of AWA. We competed quite well against SWA managed to grow and turn a profit here and there. But even more important this is one company now and what effects one side will affect the other. There is no more east west accounting just how long does it take for you to understand that? It all goes into one pot. If we go bankrupt you go bankrupt. If there are no parts for the west there are no parts for the east. What part of that do you not understand?

Doug has a nice house here that he likes. Do you really think that he is going to close the hub and move to the east? Do you really think that he would have the HQ in a city without a hub? Man you guys need to get your heads right.

BTW way we were under no obligation to negotiate a single comma at Wye River. But I guess you all should have negotiated when it was time to negotiate. Before the award was released. Now it is to late. You guys did this to yourselves with no one to blame but yourselves.

It is just sad,I used to feel sorry for you guys now I understand you do not deserve sympathy it is simply disgust.

So I guess it is OK to laugh at a fellow employee whose lower wages subsidize yours and it is OK to use them as "leverage??" It is OK to do nothing to even begin to equalize those wages even prior to seniority negotiations like EVERY other airline has done to prevent division, build cohesiveness going forward into a new contract? As I said previously, this will most likely be your downfall as far as company plans. You have now singled yourselves out as a higher cost target.Yes, if you go bankrupt, we do also go bankrupt. It is how one comes out of that bankruptcy that is the problem for certain individuals, bases, airplanes, pay scales.We all don't come out equally, as we can attest to with certainty.The longer this entity stays apart, if there is a movement to bankruptcy, the bigger a target you become. Bigger by the day. I am sure the script is already written by Jerry Glass. Pay parity? Now you will never get backup from the East after that.That is OK with you guys. As far as this entire mess being one entity that suffers collectively? I guess when a large corporation that has an underperforming asset and needs to shed costs looks at where to get savings, it randomly selects a store to close to help out? So if WalMart has an underperforming asset in Chicago and needs cost savings it shutters a store in LA? There is no more East accounting? You are seriously misleading yourself. This thing is broken down station by station on a daily basis. Good luck in 2010. Not that there is any credible business plan going forward. Any one of us could be the victims of this management. Just ask the PIT commuters. You can't get on a plane for days because this stellar management group has reduced capacity so low. Business people now drive because there is no availability of seats. I heard Doug got another ticket. "Failure to Merge....."

 

[john john]

but for the New ALPO, you know, the one made up of all the regionals- those are the ones that need the list now.

Are there more ALPA members as a whole in the express/regional side then mainline side?
This would explain the downward slope

 

[HPearlyretiree]

So I guess it is OK to laugh at a fellow employee whose lower wages subsidize yours and it is OK to use them as "leverage??" It is OK to do nothing to even begin to equalize those wages even prior to seniority negotiations like EVERY other airline has done to prevent division, build cohesiveness going forward into a new contract? As I said previously, this will most likely be your downfall as far as company plans. You have now singled yourselves out as a higher cost target.Yes, if you go bankrupt, we do also go bankrupt. It is how one comes out of that bankruptcy that is the problem for certain individuals, bases, airplanes, pay scales.We all don't come out equally, as we can attest to with certainty.The longer this entity stays apart, if there is a movement to bankruptcy, the bigger a target you become. Bigger by the day. I am sure the script is already written by Jerry Glass. Pay parity? Now you will never get backup from the East after that.That is OK with you guys. As far as this entire mess being one entity that suffers collectively? I guess when a large corporation that has an underperforming asset and needs to shed costs looks at where to get savings, it randomly selects a store to close to help out? So if WalMart has an underperforming asset in Chicago and needs cost savings it shutters a store in LA? There is no more East accounting? You are seriously misleading yourself. This thing is broken down station by station on a daily basis. Good luck in 2010. Not that there is any credible business plan going forward. Any one of us could be the victims of this management. Just ask the PIT commuters. You can't get on a plane for days because this stellar management group has reduced capacity so low. Business people now drive because there is no availability of seats. I heard Doug got another ticket. "Failure to Merge....."

Its not the west's fault that the east has dragged this thing on forever and not sucked it up and live up to their agreement to binding arbitration.

Once you guys stop firing footbullets and do something constructive to get a unified contract (with the mandated Nic), then you stop suffering.

 

[nic4us]

Perhaps they broke ranks with ALPO Nat'l which had a hand in pension theft, extraction of fees for the management of subsequent DC monies. 33 yrs. of ALPO hands in my pockets was long enough. You can manufacture your own personal reasons, but you weren't there. The bottom line why we broke ranks? The lack of backbone of ALPO to ever establish a Nat'l seniority list. Too late for us, but for the New ALPO, you know, the one made up of all the regionals- those are the ones that need the list now. Plus, we had one of our pilots making massive cash extractions in an executive position, over 200 k while we got no help from Nat'l. The end of that situation became a personal goal for many of us.

Perhaps they not only broke ranks with ALPA national, but were using ALPA resources to form a new union. That is called dual unionism, a highly questionable act, often considered illegal. Maybe ALPA national did not like PHL reps, ( do they take any kind of oath of office?) using ALPA to float usapa. Who were the PHL LEC officers anyway?

A national seniority list? Ever consider that if we had a national seniority list, seniority at LCC would look considerably different as the top half of the AWA list would jump up with their original Eastern, World,TWA, Ozark et.al. hire dates? Not saying that would be a bad thing, they could share the top with the Breeger folks and yourself. The rest of us would get quite the remix also, and not neccesarily for the better for alot of both east and West pilots.

 

[Black Swan]

Its not the west's fault that the east has dragged this thing on forever and not sucked it up and live up to their agreement to binding arbitration.

Once you guys stop firing footbullets and do something constructive to get a unified contract (with the mandated Nic), then you stop suffering.

No Nic, No suffering either. No unity, no unified contract........ever.

 

[Black Swan]

Perhaps they not only broke ranks with ALPA national, but were using ALPA resources to form a new union. That is called dual unionism, a highly questionable act, often considered illegal. Maybe ALPA national did not like PHL reps, ( do they take any kind of oath of office?) using ALPA to float usapa. Who were the PHL LEC officers anyway?

A national seniority list? Ever consider that if we had a national seniority list, seniority at LCC would look considerably different as the top half of the AWA list would jump up with their original Eastern, World,TWA, Ozark et.al. hire dates? Not saying that would be a bad thing, they could share the top with the Breeger folks and yourself. The rest of us would get quite the remix also, and not neccesarily for the better for alot of both east and West pilots.

Where do the Wien Air Alaska pilots fit in???

 

[Metroyet]

Where do the Wien Air Alaska pilots fit in???

End of Black Swan,

IF their pre-merger relative seniority is higher than yours, They're above you.

 

[cleardirect]

Perhaps they broke ranks with ALPO Nat'l which had a hand in pension theft, extraction of fees for the management of subsequent DC monies. 33 yrs. of ALPO hands in my pockets was long enough. You can manufacture your own personal reasons, but you weren't there. The bottom line why we broke ranks? The lack of backbone of ALPO to ever establish a Nat'l seniority list. Too late for us, but for the New ALPO, you know, the one made up of all the regionals- those are the ones that need the list now. Plus, we had one of our pilots making massive cash extractions in an executive position, over 200 k while we got no help from Nat'l. The end of that situation became a personal goal for many of us.

So we have returned to “it’s ALPA’s fault for all our illsâ€￾ That ALPA failed to put together a national seniority list, that would have fixed all of the problems.

Just a couple of issues with that. If it is ALPA’s fault that THEY did not put together a national list. What if they were to do that today? Where would that leave USAPA? Off the list would be my guess.

Who would be put on that list? Only pilots that work for ALPA carriers? When would you get on that list? First commercial job, first union job, first major job? Would it be DOH of would you use LOS? So a pilot gets a job at Eagle and waits around for 15 years then decides he want to go work at AA does he jump all that seniority?

What do you do with a guy whose airline closes (eastern) he gets a new job at a non union carrier that merges with AA. What seniority does he bring to the table? You then reorder the seniority list and he becomes senior to guys he was flying with?

No help from national. I think Prater holding the list and forcing meeting after meeting was a big help to the east. What did you expect some sort of “specialâ€￾ treatment?

How long are you going to let USAPA put it’s hand in your pocket with nothing to show?

 

[Freebird]

No Nic, No suffering either. No unity, no unified contract........ever.

There will be a contract with the Nic before you think. Even though you "tell the BPR" what to do. The Scope of the Transition Agreement keeping the 2 airlines seperate is a minor bump in the road to eradicate to join the two groups. Keep clicking your heels.

As for unity, Most of the East jumpseaters and commuters "distance" themselves from your organization. They see that USAPA has been a failed attempt to get rid of the Nic and has done more to destroy the future Unity. But it too has failed. Integrity Matters.

 

[Waketurbulence]

As I said previously, this will most likely be your downfall as far as company plans. You have now singled yourselves out as a higher cost target.

Wait a minute! What about your SNAP BACKS?

Tomorrow night your "clock" runs to ZERO and your wages "un freeze" and "snap back".

Won't YOU then be singled out as a "higher cost target"?