US Pilots Labor Discussion 1/13- OBSERVE THE RULES OF THE BOARD!

[cactusboy53]

According to an ALPA "fast read", HAL has just voted in a new contract. The agreement improves pay, retirement, and scheduling flexibility. The Hawaiian Airlines pilots have ratified a tentative contract agreement, the latest sign that the airline industry and the piloting profession are recovering from the bankruptcy doldrums of the past decade.

According to the news piece, ninety percent of the HAL pilots eligible to vote cast ballots, with 83 percent of the group voting in favor of the agreement—more than a four-to-one margin.

The reported 68-month agreement will give pilots pay increases of 4–6 percent immediately, and total increases of 15–22 percent over the term of the contract.

The agreement also increases the company contribution to the pilots’ retirement plans.

So, USAPA, how much longer than the forcast 6 months will we have to wait for an industry leading contract???

Did any of you know that ALPA had a lion's share of the new contract completed when USAPA was voted in?? USAPA chose to start at square ONE. Ten's of thousands of dollars each lost, NEVER to be recovered. The good news you ask? There is none. DOH is DOA, and you will not recover any money that has flown out the barn door. Further, you will not recover your income via upgrades for the foreseeable future.

Are you tired of watching other airlines get new contracts and more money? Stop fighting the seniority issue...it is DONE. Join us at www.cactuspilot.com and help us take control of USAPA so we can get a new contract. Together we can bargain as a complete body and get the contract that we deserve from LCC. Doug is laughing all the way to the bank. Do you want to help him, or help us??

 

[cleardirect]

Dudes when are ya gonna wake up. As long as NIC is here waiting in the wings we don't care what someone else makes. NIC is a death sentence. For every Boeing Boy or 924PS there are 10 VNIIMNs out here. Count on it.

Lets have a show of hands boys and girls:How many of you think DP will draw down PHX BIG TIME if there is ever a JOINT contract?...Well??

VNIIMN
NPJB

If you really believe this is going to happen. Why would any west pilot then accept the tiny east C&R of base protection, they would be gone? If as you say we are forced into east bases we would be required to bid by DOH. Everyone has admitted that without C&R would be monumentally unfair.

Now justify why we would ever let you have DOH if you guys think PHX would be shrinking? Talk about unfair. Nicolau saw this, Wake saw this

Not going to happen. Nicolau is here it will be locked in stone. If we shrink then the west will be forced to bid east bases using the Nicolau seniorty.

Because of the east greed and hope changing to usapa. Because if what you believe that PHX will shrink, your worst nightmare will come true brought on my yourselves.

Should have accepted this two years ago. But accept it now or find something else to do.

 

[Black Swan]

If you really believe this is going to happen. Why would any west pilot then accept the tiny east C&R of base protection, they would be gone? If as you say we are forced into east bases we would be required to bid by DOH. Everyone has admitted that without C&R would be monumentally unfair.

Now justify why we would ever let you have DOH if you guys think PHX would be shrinking? Talk about unfair. Nicolau saw this, Wake saw this

Not going to happen. Nicolau is here it will be locked in stone. If we shrink then the west will be forced to bid east bases using the Nicolau seniorty.

Because of the east greed and hope changing to usapa. Because if what you believe that PHX will shrink, your worst nightmare will come true brought on my yourselves.

Should have accepted this two years ago. But accept it now or find something else to do.

This airline is famous for shutting down bases. Who would have thought they would have canned PIT? Anyway, they must still have some brain?trust they consult from the old days. I thought someone would start running it differently, but it is the same thing, all over again. We are all in danger with a transactional management..........

 

[EastUS]

This airline is famous for shutting down bases. Who would have thought they would have canned PIT?


We are all in danger with a transactional management..........

Pretty much. With that we have the west's observation: "If we shrink then the west will be forced to bid east bases using the Nicolau seniorty."

Wow!...This nic thing's just sounding better and better every single moment! I can't speak for any others but, personally; I wouldn't want to miss any chance to vote a swarm of west folks in over people I've flown with for decades...after all...why should the latter group count for anything at all? :blink:

 

[Eastisleast]

This airline is famous for shutting down bases. Who would have thought they would have canned PIT? Anyway, they must still have some brain?trust they consult from the old days. I thought someone would start running it differently, but it is the same thing, all over again. We are all in danger with a transactional management..........

Who would have ever thought that the great legacy carrier of US Airways would be based in Tempe, AZ!! Phoenix is the fifth largest metro area in the US. This base may shrink but there will always be a PHX base.

 

[nycbusdriver]

The reported 68-month agreement will give pilots pay increases of 4–6 percent immediately, and total increases of 15–22 percent over the term of the contract.

The agreement also increases the company contribution to the pilots’ retirement plans.

Any idea what their new hourly rates are? "Percent increase" numbers are meaningful to the HAL pilots, but useless for most everybody else to glean useful information out of this news.

 

[RSVP767]

Excuse me. I think that you need to get with the spin machine masters, you are off message. What everyone else is telling the west, accept this now for the west will inherit the airline in 10 years. In 10 years all of this will be ours. We have been told that most or all of the east pilots will have retired.Which is it? You are all going to be gone or here for another 20 years?

So your false scale of 2030 is just more smoke,lies false expectations.

Still true. About 80% will be gone in 13 years (was 10 yrs. but with age 65 we're looking at about 13 yrs now). I am one of the youngest here on the East with 18 years to go yet.

As for the pay scales through 2030, I was just responding to Metroyet's post. No spin, smoke or lies. I presented my assumptions based on ONE possible outcome of the LOA93 grievance. One that I feel is very possible. Other possible outcomes could be even better. Or we may get nothing. Time will tell. We shall see.

One thing for sure....the closer we get to those retirement flood gates opening again, obtaining that joint contract will be increasingly difficult for the West and ever more costly for the company. Tic-Toc.

 

[RSVP767]

Frankly; The whole nic business is pretty cut and dried to me. I find the entire notion of ever placing anyone, within the same craft and category, who had all of three months worked as equivalent or even superior to another with 17 years worked to be an utterly immoral abomination.....period. I couldn't possibly care any less about whether it's an abberrant result of arbitration, courtrooms....or merely mass insanity. It's just plain wrong on so many levels that I'll never accept it, nor ever vote it into existence....period.

Agreed! Well said East.

 

[Tiger 1050]

Any idea what their new hourly rates are? "Percent increase" numbers are meaningful to the HAL pilots, but useless for most everybody else to glean useful information out of this news.

Add the percentages to this...

 

[Metroyet]

Driver,

Unfortunately for you we will always have our vote!

Hate

Words like "we" and "our" are plural. What you actually have is Singular. You have your vote. One single, lonely vote. Guess what?

So do THOUSANDS of others. You have no more idea how those THOUSANDS of pilots and their families will vote than I do.

I suspect a decent raise will pass on the first go. We'll see.

 

[freedom]

Still true. About 80% will be gone in 13 years (was 10 yrs. but with age 65 we're looking at about 13 yrs now). I am one of the youngest here on the East with 18 years to go yet.

As for the pay scales through 2030, I was just responding to Metroyet's post. No spin, smoke or lies. I presented my assumptions based on ONE possible outcome of the LOA93 grievance. One that I feel is very possible. Other possible outcomes could be even better. Or we may get nothing. Time will tell. We shall see.

One thing for sure....the closer we get to those retirement flood gates opening again, obtaining that joint contract will be increasingly difficult for the West and ever more costly for the company. Tic-Toc.

LOL can i come live in the pilot reality ?

US airways around for another TEN or TWENTY years ? wow .....

 

[jetjok1]

FELLOW USAPA MEMBERS:
Look at the previous posted payrates for the east. These are the rates we earned for a large measure of our careers. We for the most part have already shouldered the big costs of our lives, and saved.Your continued mantra of poor earnings is absolutely untrue. Compare an 83 U hire to a 83' AWA pilot W-2 over time, and you certainly see who had the raw deal. Take your little snapshot, and call it what you want.You just recently got some semblance of a decent pay rate. For yrs. you had the worst contract running, and the entire industry knew it. I can take a snapshot of your housing values right now, and claim it is your entire housing value over time. As bad as home values are in PHX and LAS, and I don't know what they will look like in a few yrs. from now, although one could most likely guess. A few years ago they were better. It would be unfair to take todays' values and say they were the norm.If we have "truly" the lowest pay rates, one could say you "truly" have the the worst housing market. This is our collective reality, since you reference economic circumstances.
As far as the reality of the NIC "setting in"- well, this is your little fantasy. And the references to ALPA? You saw what we did to them. Gone, DOA, SMOKING HOLE.... Take a look at Midwest, and you can see the power of ALPA. Are you familiar? Seems ALPA somehow allowed the ALPA Midwest group to be entirely replaced by Republic pilots. We all knew what had to be done with ALPA and their merger policy that was totally driven by UAL and their collective dreams. They all wanted us gone. Guess what? We are here, we are your reality, and we are going to flush any contract that includes Nic right back down the rathole from where it crawled. This is from a 33yr. former ALPA member.

Black Swan,

I am in total agreement with your W-2 analysis. They won't be able to catch up to what I've earned in my 26 years with USairways. However, I don't agree with your housing analogy nor do I understand what it has to do with anything. The housing bubble/debacle is nothing we had control over. It has nothing to do with the arguments here on these boards and, frankly, I think it's a low blow to the unfortunate people that are living in areas harder hit than others. Stick to the task. It's a wonder I continue to read this crap anyway. Somehow, someway, we need to come together. It's our only chance of survival.

 

[Phoenix]

... Somehow, someway, we need to come together.

There is only one thing that has ever established order and overcome or restrained the natural human tendency of union members to devolve into grubby grabbers. ALPA couldn't resist selling out for the allure of more dues, and proved the hard way, that there is no alternative, their most self-pious efforts notwithstanding.

 

[TheBadCat1313]

There is only one thing that has ever established order and overcome or restrained the natural human tendency of union members to devolve into grubby grabbers. ALPA couldn't resist selling out for the allure of more dues, and proved the hard way, that there is no alternative, their most self-pious efforts notwithstanding.

Boy that's the truth. They did everything they could to try and get the west to do what they could not: cave in on the Nic award and negotiate changes. All in the interest of ALPA National.

 

[traderjake]

I find the entire notion of ever placing anyone, within the same craft and category, who had all of three months worked as equivalent or even superior to another with 17 years worked to be an utterly immoral abomination.....period. I couldn't possibly care any less about whether it's an abberrant result of arbitration, courtrooms....or merely mass insanity.

The West brought 120 airplanes to the merger.

What's insane is to believe that an East First Officer should be senior to the Captains flying those 120 airplanes.

It's also insane after three arbitrations and a court ruling against your position not to consider the possibility that you're wrong.