US Pilots Labor Discussion 1/13- OBSERVE THE RULES OF THE BOARD!

[cleardirect]

Clear, This statement above shows us what little knowledge of the MDA case you have. Good luck!

Hate

Really! When are you guy going to learn, we actually read the documents not just listen to crew room rumor. Where is the damage? How is this ripe?

Thanks USAPA/Seham for bringing up the ripeness issue. That is ironic.

Document 73 from the MDA case. Are we done here? Perhaps you should understand before you speak.

FAILURE TO PROVIDE INFORMATION REGARDING ALLEGED DAMAGES

Plaintiffs have also failed to produce documents in support of their claim that they have
been harmed by the arbitration award. (To the best of defendants’ knowledge, the Award has not
yet been implemented, so none of plaintiffs’ claims are yet ripe.) Specifically, defendants
requested documents related to plaintiffs’ claim that there is or has been a “practical effect†to
the arbitration award, see Exh. A (Request No. 10), and that their “career expectations are [or
have been] significantly thwarted,†see id. (Request No. 8); see also id. (Request No. 3) (request
for documents related to allegation of Supplemental Complaint that there has been a “pragmatic
affect [sic] of the seniority integrationâ€); (Request No. 18) (request for documents regarding
allegation that ALPA’s alleged contention that MDA was a separate carrier from US Airways
harmed MDA pilots); (Request No. 19) (request for documents regarding allegation that listing
MDA pilots as furloughed on the allegedly erroneous seniority list harmed MDA pilots). In
response, plaintiffs state, in part, that “t is beyond cavil†that the award had a practical effect.
See Exh. A (Response to Request No. 8). But if ALPA is correct that the Award has not been
implemented, then the opposite is actually true; it is “beyond cavil†that there are no damages at
all presently flowing from the Award because it has not yet been implemented. So plaintiffs
should be required to support any claims of harm by producing relevant documents.

 

[Hate2fly]

Let's see here.

Black Swan goes to the PHX housing market and you go to Wilder's blog.

Man, you guys are desperate for material.

Driver,

Unfortunately for you we will always have our vote!

Hate

 

[Black Swan]

Really! When are you guy going to learn, we actually read the documents not just listen to crew room rumor. Where is the damage? How is this ripe?

Thanks USAPA/Seham for bringing up the ripeness issue. That is ironic.

Document 73 from the MDA case. Are we done here? Perhaps you should understand before you speak.

How about the damage realized when the MDA pilots were prevented from bidding mainline equipment in the subsequent bids that actually took place? That is the first imprint of damage, the smoking gun, the real deal. That was no proposed mainline bid, that was one that actually was recorded. And they were locked out. Locked out=real damage=ripeness.

 

[Barrister]

I doubt that a Tenative Agreement is even achievable in this decade, absent a merger where Parker is willing to throw money at the pilots to get the deal done.

Your seniority was determined by a process that was agreed to under the previous union. You couldn't negotiate or mediate an acceptable list. You agreed to binding arbitrartion because you thought you would slam dunk the West pilots.

George Nicolau and 2 pilot neutrals crafted a list that complied with ALPA's then current merger policy. If I vote in favor of a new contract, it will be becuase it offers much better than LOA 93. Section 22 is already complete, and has been for almost 3 years.

The Nicolau Award IS the seniority list of the future at USAirways. How many years and millions will it take for you to accept that fact?

So 924 PS did the Usair pilots slam dunk the Piedmont pilots when it went DOH and how did you fare in that one sir. I smell hippocrit all over ya man!!

VNIIMN
NPJB

 

[Black Swan]

FELLOW USAPA MEMBERS:

Look at the previous post. This individual continues to live in the past. He cites non-existant pay rates instead of defending the current ones he chooses under which to live. And, in typical east fashion, he thinks only of himself when mentions that his big costs have come to pass. What about those of you that still have those big costs? I guess that doesn't matter because he's gotten his.

And, in what smacks of desperation, Black Swan falls back to the housing market as an argument. Why? Because he has nothing else by which to legitimize his argument. I mean, come on:

"If we have "truly" the lowest pay rates, one could say you "truly" have the the worst housing market."

YHGTBSM!!! That has got to be THE most ridiculous statement I have EVER read on this board.

So, fellow USAPA members, while Black Swan talks about how weak the PHX housing market is, you east pilots continue to wallow under LOA93 as Hawaiian and Jetblue collect their new payrates.

Fellow USAPA members: Do the math. Yes the current rates are lower. The aggregate of W-2 destroys your argument. I guess I have to agree with your ridiculous supposition that current pay rates have defined our collective career earnings, therefore a east pilot has made less money over the life of a comparative west pilot? Do the math. You took your ridiculous snapshot at one point in time, and then made the ridiculous assumption that all judgements have to be rendered with this? This is akin to a professional athlete fumbling the ball, tripping, or an ice skater having a bad spell, therefore they are worthless and should be traded away. Look at the overall career earnings. Your group has had substandard pay for years. You just recently got a few dollars more,measured in a few years. Therefore, you deserve the world. How can you claim past earnings saved, spent, banked are non-existent?

 

[Barrister]

So you think that it's realistic to be living under LOA 93 until the year 2030? Bear in mind that Jet Blue E190 captains make more than your narrowbody captains now. Do some math concerning the time value of money and see how you fare. What's an LOA93 dollar going to be worth in 10...15...20 years? Inflation will eat 3% a year. You'd be better off managing a burger king. You do realize that maybe two dozen guys would be willing to move or commute to the East coast for a reserve left seat right? In the end. I think you'll find that what you fear most was never going to materialize in the first place. Nic isn't going to go away, it's not the West pilots fault that the East careers have sucked so unbelievably bad. This isn't a war, it's mass denial. As always, there will be a contract signed when the company wants one.

Dudes when are ya gonna wake up. As long as NIC is here waiting in the wings we don't care what someone else makes. NIC is a death sentence. For every Boeing Boy or 924PS there are 10 VNIIMNs out here. Count on it.

Lets have a show of hands boys and girls:How many of you think DP will draw down PHX BIG TIME if there is ever a JOINT contract?...Well??

VNIIMN
NPJB

 

[EastUS]

Fellow USAPA members: Do the math. Yes the current rates are lower. The aggregate of W-2 destroys your argument. I guess I have to agree with your ridiculous supposition that current pay rates have defined our collective career earnings, therefore a east pilot has made less money over the life of a comparative west pilot? Do the math. You took your ridiculous snapshot at one point in time, and then made the ridiculous assumption that all judgements have to be rendered with this?.......

Your group has had substandard pay for years. You just recently got a few dollars more.........Therefore, you deserve the world. How can you claim past earnings saved, spent, banked are non-existent?

Indeed.

I feel a point worth addressing's brought up by the west observation: "What about those of you that still have those big costs? I guess that doesn't matter because he's gotten his."

To my thinking: This further bolsters the argument against nic, as it is those of our list's "young", still raising families and again awaiting upgrades/etc, who'd most suffer under it, should it ever be implemented. What better "gift" could ever be afforded east coworkers than to permanently deny them the additional income through their never regaining their previously held left seats?....or, for those fairly few that weren't prior captains out east, to even ever see said seats at all?

 

[HPDriver]

Dudes when are ya gonna wake up. As long as NIC is here waiting in the wings we don't care what someone else makes. NIC is a death sentence. For every Boeing Boy or 924PS there are 10 VNIIMNs out here. Count on it.

Lets have a show of hands boys and girls:How many of you think DP will draw down PHX BIG TIME if there is ever a JOINT contract?...Well??

VNIIMN
NPJB

Your career was a death sentence period.

You had nothing.

 

[HPDriver]

Fellow USAPA members: Do the math. Yes the current rates are lower. The aggregate of W-2 destroys your argument. I guess I have to agree with your ridiculous supposition that current pay rates have defined our collective career earnings, therefore a east pilot has made less money over the life of a comparative west pilot? Do the math. You took your ridiculous snapshot at one point in time, and then made the ridiculous assumption that all judgements have to be rendered with this? This is akin to a professional athlete fumbling the ball, tripping, or an ice skater having a bad spell, therefore they are worthless and should be traded away. Look at the overall career earnings. Your group has had substandard pay for years. You just recently got a few dollars more,measured in a few years. Therefore, you deserve the world. How can you claim past earnings saved, spent, banked are non-existent?

Fellow USAPA Members:

Stop living in the past with your "aggregate of W-2" arguments.

A pilot is always judged by his last landing. The east's last landing was LOA 93 and they haven't had a good one since.

Let's move on.

 

[Black Swan]

Your career was a death sentence period.

You had nothing.

Wow, talk about running on empty.

 

[Black Swan]

Fellow USAPA Members:

Stop living in the past with your "aggregate of W-2" arguments.

A pilot is always judged by his last landing. The east's last landing was LOA 93 and they haven't had a good one since.

Let's move on.

If a pilot is ALWAYS judged by his last landing, then you are deemed to have poor judgement ..........

 

[EastUS]

A pilot is always judged by his last landing.

"always"???? Hmmm....Interesting world view. No matter; If that's stated as fact from the west...well...it must be true....snapshots in time are all that ever matters anyway...so; anyone have the most recent stats handy for Sullenberger's and Skiles' last landings?..and btw; what's that BS artist Armstrong ever really done since he landed on the moon anyway?

 

[N924PS]

So 924 PS did the Usair pilots slam dunk the Piedmont pilots when it went DOH and how did you fare in that one sir. I smell hippocrit all over ya man!!

VNIIMN
NPJB

You smell better than you spell.

The correct spelling is hypocrite.

A hippocrit is, of course, a large critter that is a plant eating mammal that lives in or near rivers in Africa.

Different merger-different merger policy.

But then, remember the Kagel Award?

 

[Waketurbulence]

We all knew what had to be done with ALPA and their merger policy that was totally driven by UAL and their collective dreams. They all wanted us gone.

So now it's all the United pilots fault???

 

[Richard]

Stop the wisecrack remarks, folks....I just deleted a bunch of posts. Anyone else want some time off?