US Pilot Labor Thread for the week 6/6 to 6/13

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

The answer to your questions

By the way sir this was posted many times in the past. Johnny come lately's like yourself waste the time of the posters that have followed this board.

It doesn't change the fact that "veterans" seem to rehash the same points over and over and over again-giving "johnny come lately's(?)" such as myself the opportunity to comment.

There does seem to be a great deal of wasted posters time.

 

[sharktooth]

I thought you were more concerned with representing the west, but I see it's all about dues/money.

No. Let me simpify.

A union enters into a contract with a group of people, delineated in this case by pilots at US.

IANAL A valid contract includes that two or more parties, in this case, USAPA and the pilots at US, must contribute goods or services, generally the union contributes services, the pilots contribute dues. The union provides representation, in most of its forms, in return (the quid) for dues. Under the previous union, the contract resembled more of a franchise, the union providing, sometimes, conflicting goods and services to different groups, in return for dues. The present union will not be hobbled by conflicts from other pilot groups, and, hopefully, will tailor a product specific to the US pilots. Your views to influence the "tailoring" can only happen if you pay full dues.

Your representation will depend on paying dues as well as what you put into the service. You can pay dues yet not receive representation if you plan on being a couch potato. A maintenance fee gets you representation at the bargaining table as well as the CP desk. The couple extra dollars for full dues status gets you representation at meetings through speaking and voting. Your future is in your hands.

Hope that helps.

 

[Flyz4food]

No. Let me simpify.

A union enters into a contract with a group of people, delineated in this case by pilots at US.

IANAL A valid contract includes that two or more parties, in this case, USAPA and the pilots at US, must contribute goods or services, generally the union contributes services, the pilots contribute dues. The union provides representation, in most of its forms, in return (the quid) for dues. Under the previous union, the contract resembled more of a franchise, the union providing, sometimes, conflicting goods and services to different groups, in return for dues. The present union will not be hobbled by conflicts from other pilot groups, and, hopefully, will tailor a product specific to the US pilots. Your views to influence the "tailoring" can only happen if you pay full dues.

Your representation will depend on paying dues as well as what you put into the service. You can pay dues yet not receive representation if you plan on being a couch potato. A maintenance fee gets you representation at the bargaining table as well as the CP desk. The couple extra dollars for full dues status gets you representation at meetings through speaking and voting. Your future is in your hands.

Hope that helps.

A valid contract is one between two groups in AGREEMENT. Surely you can't tell me that there was ever an agreement or discussion between the two groups to come to a mutually accepted outcome. Sheer numbers decided. As they will continue to.

 

[GorgeousGeorge]

A valid contract is one between two groups in AGREEMENT. Surely you can't tell me that there was ever an agreement or discussion between the two groups to come to a mutually accepted outcome. Sheer numbers decided. As they will continue to.

It is like that in every Agency Shop union. Many unions are voted in with dissent, some by the slimmest of margins. All have to pay dues or germane fees, so nothing new there in that regard.

 

[Flyz4food]

It is like that in every Agency Shop union. Many unions are voted in with dissent, some by the slimmest of margins. All have to pay dues or germane fees, so nothing new there in that regard.

What do the Germans have to do with this?

 

[GorgeousGeorge]

What do the Germans have to do with this?

Non membership only relieves a union employee covered by a contract of fees that are NON GERMAN 🙄 to the contract, which in an independent union will be a minimal amount of the total.

 

[767jetz]

First, the east saved the west. All of the significant investors in the east put up the money to "do" the merger. Not one from the west.

Still no response sharktooth? Why not? Your post is where the subject came up. I've provided a valid rebuttal, as have others regarding the fact that it was because of the West that the money was made available, regardless of where is came from. (And it certainly didn't come from the East.)

I'll try again.

There are articles like this one : Consolidation Beneficial

"According to a report from Standard & Poor's... In the case of US Airways and America West, despite their labor troubles, the combination did generate higher revenues and probably saved US Airways from liquidation.

Are we to take your word over Standard and Poor's? Care to retract or alter your statement?

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Still no response sharktooth? Why not? Your post is where the subject came up. I've provided a valid rebuttal, as have others regarding the fact that it was because of the West that the money was made available, regardless of where is came from. (And it certainly didn't come from the East.)

I'll try again.

There are articles like this one : Consolidation Beneficial

"According to a report from Standard & Poor's... In the case of US Airways and America West, despite their labor troubles, the combination did generate higher revenues and probably saved US Airways from liquidation.

Are we to take your word over Standard and Poor's? Care to retract or alter your statement?

And, just where does it say that America West would have made it without the merger?

 

[EastUS]

You sound like one of those DOH or else forever types.

I'm honestly curious sir: During the course of your own career...What was your personal seniority based upon?.

"You don't know what the leadership condoned." Perhaps you do..and will be so kind as to fill us all in? No matter..we've two ways to go on that issue:
1) There exists no actual, much less even semi-intelligent "leadership" of any kind out west, and the literally excretive group behavior there's purely a randomized result of many "great minds" thinking alike.
2) Your assertion's utterly ridiculous, and will be clearly seen to be so in any courtroom proceedings.

 

[EastUS]

What do the Germans have to do with this?

Cue Belushi from the west version of Animal House: "Did we give up when the germans bombed Pearl Harbor!?...NO!" ...."Heck no..we started tying up phone lines with prank calls, having such "emotional distress" that we couldn't even safely fly with someone in the jump seat, hanging children's dolls in cockpits, and "stuffing envelopes"...

Prechillill:"The east pilots are so wrapped up in their emotions they can't see what is happening around them. These recent events highlight this perfectly." Yes...that much is clear. 🙄

 

[sharktooth]

A valid contract is one between two groups in AGREEMENT. Surely you can't tell me that there was ever an agreement or discussion between the two groups to come to a mutually accepted outcome. Sheer numbers decided. As they will continue to.

So, you are agreeing the contract is between two groups, the union and the pilot group. Which one did not agree?

 

[EastUS]

Sheer numbers decided. As they will continue to.

From US.INFO.STATE.GOV:

"Ancient Athens, the world's first democracy, managed to practice direct democracy with an assembly that may have numbered as many as 5,000 to 6,000 persons--." Hmmm..and, as completely "evil" as democracy apparently was/is, even then..at least by west "thinking" = "Sheer numbers decided"...What could those ancient "fools" have possibly been thinking? 😉 Truly shocking!!..what a horribly 'unfair" idea this whole "democracy" thing truly is 😉 From "The Book of the West" = "It's ALL about MEEEeee!!!".

"Leonidas" summed it up perfectly = "I want the captain seat...and most of all, I want every single east pilot to pay for it". Democracy's clearly outta' the question wherever such noble ideals are firmly held 😉

 

[sharktooth]

Hmmmm...
But then there are articles like this one : Consolidation Beneficial

"according to a report from Standard & Poor's... In the case of US Airways and America West, despite their labor troubles, the combination did generate higher revenues and probably saved US Airways from liquidation.

Yes. I'll take your word over Standard and Poor's. 🙄

Don't take my word.

As I said, read the filings during 2005 to understand who bought who and why hp was brought into the mix. Hint: When they asked who would be CEO, everyone else stepped back while Doug wasn't looking.

and you would take the word of a stenographer self-styled "opinion" writer who likely hasn't read any of the the SEC filings dealing with the "merger"?

Also, the actions "saving" US and HP were the two bks that US went through, lowering costs enough to make up for the basement yields out of LAS/PHX.

Do some reading of actual papers, first. Great Google skillz, just don't know what you are reading.

 

[sharktooth]

Clipper - Pan Am

Very true. Very apt, summoning up the aircraft from what that appellation was derived.

Somehow, lumping Speedbird and Clipper in with "cactus" seems to diminish the former in many ways.

Hearing that call-sign from the SST cockpit jump-seat, a name given with pride that commanded pride. Don't hear Clipper anymore.

 

[Dont call me Shirley]

Is there any other (intl?) airline that uses something other than their corporate name for a call-sign?

some that come to mind off hand:
PA - Clipper
CP - Empress

BA - Speedbird
CI - Dynasty
SA - Springbok

Check Wikipedia's list of call signs - there are a number that are different than the name.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_airline_call_signs

A new call sign - other than "US air" or "Cactus" is not a bad idea. A while back there was thread on this topic (that included a number of humorous ideas.)