US Pilot Labor Thread for the week 6/6 to 6/13

[767jetz]

First, the east saved the west. All of the significant investors in the east put up the money to "do" the merger.

Hmmmm...
But then there are articles like this one : Consolidation Beneficial

"according to a report from Standard & Poor's... In the case of US Airways and America West, despite their labor troubles, the combination did generate higher revenues and probably saved US Airways from liquidation.

Yes. I'll take your word over Standard and Poor's.

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

All this money from the east was contingent on something-wasn't it?

Not a stand alone U. Someone sought out HP-was it the bankers?

If it was the "east"(not US Air east's own money for sure)money people did they care where there repayment came from?

The east model, evident by 2 BKs, did not work.

High fares back east and also high costs.

 

[nostradamus]

All this money from the east was contingent on something-wasn't it?

Not a stand alone U. Someone sought out HP-was it the bankers?

If it was the "east"(not US Air east's own money for sure)money people did they care where there repayment came from?

The east model, evident by 2 BKs, did not work.

High fares back east and also high costs.

The answer to your questions

By the way sir this was posted many times in the past. Johnny come lately's like yourself waste the time of the posters that have followed this board.

 

[L1011Ret]

Speedbird. British Airways. But you knew that 'cause you're sharktooth...

Clipper - Pan Am

 

[L1011Ret]

All water under a burnt bridge now.

Reality, pay dues or your fired. Pay dues soon or a contract will be voted in by dues paying members.

Both airlines have to agree and vote on a contract or we are separate.

The america west pilot "leaders" underestimated the "aged, dumb, unorganized, unfunded and unfounded" original US Airways pilots. The america west pilots decided to break the law, ( USAPA vs awappa lawsuit )while the US Airways pilots pursued things legally.

Advice to america west pilots, start paying dues and proceed legally, like the original US Airways pilots.

AWA pilots broke the law? From this outsider's perspective it looks more like the Easties that broke the law. Reading the lawsuit is like listening to a couple of whiny 4 year olds in a sandbox. This has to be the most self destructive move anyone could imagine. It will all get thrown out because all these type labor relations suits get thrown out of Federal Court because they are pre-empted by the RLA.

 

[EastUS]

Reading the lawsuit is like listening to a couple of whiny 4 year olds in a sandbox. This has to be the most self destructive move anyone could imagine.

"AWA pilots broke the law? From this outsider's perspective it looks more like the Easties that broke the law." Oh really?..How/When and in what way?

"It will all get thrown out because..." It'll be seen in court, then we'll eventually all know. meanwhile?..I'm guessing that a few external agencies..the US Postal Service for one..might well find the offences noted as being less utterly insignificant. Time will tell on all.

"...whiny 4 year olds in a sandbox." Funny that you bring such a thought up in those particular terms....

 

[nycbusdriver]

If no east guys care about the call sign why don't you guys ask usapa to propose it as a good will gesture? Gotta start some were.

We've already seen how the west returns our goodwill gestures.

Look how much love we've gotten by sharing our profit sharing money with you folks.

Thanks, but now it's time to dig in our heels and get what we can.

The love-fest is long over.

 

[oldcrow]

I no longer have a dog in this fight but from what I'm hearing USAPA is starting down a slipppery slope with the DOH list they are working on. My sources tell me they are quietly looking at re-doing the whole seniority list with DOH for the former Empire and Trump Shuttle(Eastern DOH)pilots. Some have even suggested that all pilots from other airlines that got hired by USAir get their original airline DOH if their previous airline had gone out of business.

IMO, if they keep going forward with this there will be major dissension within the ranks at USAPA.

 

[L1011Ret]

At the rate they are going in their self destructive ways, it will be a contest to see whether DOH or Chapter 11 comes first. Some employees are more interested in their own seniority agenda than they are the survival of USAir. Some even hold their childish "we're going to beat you death" lawsuit which will be thrown out in Federal Court as some model of justice. I'm surprised any reputable law firm would take this suit....

 

[prechilill]

I'm surprised any reputable law firm would take this suit....

Well, you pretty much answered your own question. If you look at the authors of the suit, outside of Seaham the lawyers are mostly coming from no-named, bottom-tier law schools. They are probably fine people but when take a step back and look at why lawyers are associated with frivolous law suits Seaham's civil suit highlights why. Anyone can file a lawsuit in America and anyone can find a desperate law firm to pump up their client's emotions and hope enough to fork over some $$$. Getting a judgement is an entirely different matter (look at the MDA and AAA MEC lawsuits which have gone nowhere as two recent examples).
The east pilots are so wrapped up in their emotions they can't see what is happening around them. These recent events highlight this perfectly.

 

[Freighterguynow]

What would not be fine with them would be a fair, relative seniority list issued under binding arbitration. However, in a UAL/AAA merger (or with any other larger carrier) they would not have the brute numbers to pull the stunt they did after Nicolau was awarded.

Am I way off base here? Anybody know of a pilot at UAL (or American, or Delta for that matter!) with 6,500 pilots or so below him who would want a junior F/O from AAA right next to him on a combined list?


And yet over 700 formerly furloughed pilots have accepted recall. I don't know exactly how many were back by July of 07 but your "fair relative seniority" results in stapling close to 850 United pilots with hire dates of 2001 (and earlier) junior to AmWest pilots with 2005 hire dates.

I think the Nic is problematic no matter what the method.

 

[prechilill]

I no longer have a dog in this fight but from what I'm hearing USAPA is starting down a slipppery slope with the DOH list they are working on. My sources tell me they are quietly looking at re-doing the whole seniority list with DOH for the former Empire and Trump Shuttle(Eastern DOH)pilots. Some have even suggested that all pilots from other airlines that got hired by USAir get their original airline DOH if their previous airline had gone out of business.

IMO, if they keep going forward with this there will be major dissension within the ranks at USAPA.

Well, at least USAPA recognizes their incongruent logic of selectively reorganizing a seniority list to DOH. That would be a guaranteed lawsuit they would pay dearly for. However, even if USAPA did pursue a suicidal gunshot wound I doubt the company would even sujbject themselves to the liability of bypassing an arbitration award- Parker gets nothing out of doing so. Besides, right now he has 2/3 of the pilot group on the lowest pay rates in the country- why even open up the door to change that? USAPA claims they won't negotiate a contract without DOH language. Fine! I am sure Parker is elated by this- it relieves him of actually producing a negotiated contract.
USAPA is failing by their own lack of careful thought and planning. The easties are learning talk is cheap and it is so easy to criticize ALPA from the peanut gallery.

 

[Flyz4food]

We've already seen how the west returns our goodwill gestures.

Look how much love we've gotten by sharing our profit sharing money with you folks.

Thanks, but now it's time to dig in our heels and get what we can.

The love-fest is long over.
[/quote
What you fail to mention is the fact that profit sharing was in the Transition Agreement. One of the other agreements you AGREED to. Do you want to reneg on that as well. Of course you do. Your mention of time to dig in your heels and stick it to the other guys is telling.

"Get what we can", priceless.

 

[nostradamus]

Besides, right now he has 2/3 of the pilot group on the lowest pay rates in the country- why even open up the door to change that?

USAPA is failing by their own lack of careful thought and planning. The easties are learning talk is cheap and it is so easy to criticize ALPA from the peanut gallery.

I have posted a link to pilot pay rates below. Please note that the america west pilots were more than happy to work for the lowest pay rates in the country for 25 years. Southwest had the lowest wages for quite a while. alpa allowed this for years and failed to do anything about it.

Pilot wages since 1995 report

USAPA's careful thought and planning looks pretty good now.

america west pilots have to pay dues or they are fired and can not vote on a new contract. Simple as that. Your "brilliant" leadership, that were thrown out of their cushy jobs and offices, condoned sending human waste, threatening phone calls with abusive language, instead of dues to USAPA.

 

[L1011Ret]

I have posted a link to pilot pay rates below. Please note that the america west pilots were more than happy to work for the lowest pay rates in the country for 25 years. Southwest had the lowest wages for quite a while. alpa allowed this for years and failed to do anything about it.

Pilot wages since 1995 report

USAPA's careful thought and planning looks pretty good now.

america west pilots have to pay dues or they are fired and can not vote on a new contract. Simple as that. Your "brilliant" leadership, that were thrown out of their cushy jobs and offices, condoned sending human waste, threatening phone calls with abusive language, instead of dues to USAPA.

You don't know what the leadership condoned. You sound like one of those DOH or else forever types. It takes some sort of willingness and an ability to retreat from rigid cherished positions to make any kind of compromise work. It just does not exist among the DOH group. As I remember it, the DOH group was not paying dues to ALPA, now you threaten them because they are not paying dues! Like the Branch Davisons at Waco you seem determined to do it your way even to the extent of burning the house down with resultant losses.