US Pilot Labor Thread 10/5 to 10/12 KEEP ON TOPIC

[NiceLandingCaptain]

And now we know why the Department of Education mandated standardized testing in all schools...

I think they missed one or two...

 

[nic4us]

So suddenly...length of service actually matters to you out west? An amusing flip-flop right there, but no matter. Are you even possibly now suggesting that there are any remaining furloughed from the pre-merger east list left to factor in? What purpose is there in considering any that no longer work here by way of refusing recall? This just becomes increasingly more absurd by the moment.

A previous statement from nic4us = Jul 25 2008, 12:41 AM "had the arbitrated award gone date of hire, I could have lived with that." Now??... It's "what flies in the face of union-based principals is your illegaly elected association and thier determination to steal jobs from fellow pilots" I leave the reading audience to their own conclusions as to the consistency of the thinking involved here.....

eastus,

Very consistent thinking here. I have not waivered from my mindset. Had a third party nuetral determined that DOH was fair, I could have lived with that, and was prepared to do so. However, as I stated twice before, but you left this part out of your quote, I will not accept a onesided determination from USAPA as to what is fair, regardless of its content. I said this before we got to see the conditions and restrictions which are laughable.

LOS has always mattered, and was addressed in the Nic, most notably by the one dessenting opinion of the pilot nuetral who thought that those already recalled should be given something more. Nicolau and the other pilot nuetral rebutted that this actually supported the west argument further, and therefore was not needed.

As to furloughs from pre-merger left to factor in, I am not saying those who turned down recall will come back now. However, what is up with the 9 east pilots recalled to the west, with pilots senior to them are being furloughed, being given the opportunity to go back east, in direct conflict of the Transition agreement. What is up with new hires continuing their employment while those senior to them are furloughed. The only answere we are getting from USAPA is well its okay because by next april all the new hires will be gone. Well it is not okay with me.

 

[john john]

And now we know why the Department of Education mandated standardized testing in all schools...

Sorry you cannot comprehend the fundamentals of the thread

 

[john john]

And now we know why the Department of Education mandated standardized testing in all schools...

Do you mean sobriety testing?

 

[boeingplt]

Hmmmm...so using DOH, suppose the company decides it needs to furlough another 500. Now we all know where those 500 will come from using your DOH list, so PHX and LAS are now reduced to 1200 pilots. BUT, the company in it's infinite wisdom feels it needs 1500 pilots in PHX & LAS. Are not 300 VACANCIES created?

I believe that those positions would remain protected and the west pilots would have recapture rights notwithstanding recall provisions.

Your merger committee would be the best resource for that info, however.

Accurate information is a good thing even if you don't agree with it. Rumors and hearsay are a darn poor substitute when you are trying to draw serious conclusions.

 

[nostradamus]

And now we know why the Department of Education mandated standardized testing in all schools...

america west pilots have two sparring groups. Maybe accounting was not tested and not the forte of your pilot group.

Quote below from October 5 update for one of the two west pilots groups infighting.


" "Lastly, many of you have asked if we will honor your donations to AWAPPA in support of this legal campaign by providing the corresponding badge backer in appreciation. We do plan to do this once we have received the promised funding and accounting of your donations from AWAPPA, though at present, we do not know when that will occur. We appreciate your patience in this matter and will advise you when those transfers take place.

Thanks again for everyone's financial, intellectual and moral support." "

Leonidas LLC

 

[cleardirect]

I believe that those positions would remain protected and the west pilots would have recapture rights notwithstanding recall provisions.

Your merger committee would be the best resource for that info, however.

Accurate information is a good thing even if you don't agree with it. Rumors and hearsay are a darn poor substitute when you are trying to draw serious conclusions.

Nope! Incorrect. According to the merger committee FAQ this is what they say.

12. What happens if there are no longer enough West pilots to fill the positions allocated to them as protected positions or West pilots choose not to fill other positions allocated to them? (back to top)

The unfilled positions permanently revert to system-wide seniority bid positions.
Note: This does not apply initially when there are unfilled protected positions due to furlough.

13. What happens if there are insufficient bidders? (back to top)

If any protected West pilot bypasses a protected position by failing to place a bid for a position he/she could have held on a system bid, that protected position will be eliminated and the position will be subject to Date of Hire bidding in all subsequent system bids.

So according to USAPA if the company furloughs beyond current furloughs. It is DOH so it would be mostly west pilots. Therefore leaving PHX undermanned. See question 12. Not enough pilots to fill those positions. PERMANETLY reducing those protected spots. See question 13. Insufficient bidders. Furloughs! Opens up PHX to DOH. DOH list places 81% of the west below Dean Colello. Every west FO’s career would be over under this disaster.

 

[cleardirect]

For all of you east pilots that drone on about you do not want what the west has. Please justify this statement. Or do you really want everything?

10. If international flying or A330 flying is introduced in PHX, would that flying be part of the protected positions?

No. Protected position provisions are limited to domestic flying and pay-equivalent replacement aircraft.

Currently and pre-merger we fly to Canada, Mexico and Costa Rica. Under USAPA that flying becomes unprotected east flying. Any growth in PHX become east flying from PHX. The more that comes out about this out and out theft from the west the worse it gets.

 

[electricjet98]

Hmmmm...so using DOH, suppose the company decides it needs to furlough another 500. Now we all know where those 500 will come from using your DOH list, so PHX and LAS are now reduced to 1200 pilots. BUT, the company in it's infinite wisdom feels it needs 1500 pilots in PHX & LAS. Are not 300 VACANCIES created?

I believe that those positions would remain protected and the west pilots would have recapture rights notwithstanding recall provisions.

Your merger committee would be the best resource for that info, however.

Accurate information is a good thing even if you don't agree with it. Rumors and hearsay are a darn poor substitute when you are trying to draw serious conclusions.

So, you agree that at least until recall is implemented, the 300 west vacancies would be available to east pilots. 300, almost certain to be senior, that will further damage the west pilots.

And regarding the merger committee, if their ability to return an email is the same as USAPA officers and BPR members, I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

[Megasnoop]

nic4us "He had flow 4 engine widebody across the Pacific before for this company, something no east pilot had done"

I'm not trying to start a fight, but there are East guys that flew for Braniff. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't they fly 747's, DC-8's and 707/720's? Now for those who started there airline careers in a CRJ, those are all aircraft that have four engines and fly across the ocean.

Braniff also had a 4-engine Concorde, flown by their own pilots. My Sim partner when I was a new-hire was an upgrading BN captain who plumbed on the SST.

ManD, as I understand the West mentality, somehow an airline that went CH 11 because of the 747s had career expectations of someday flying a wide-body again? They got to be kidding. But since they want to throw their now retired #1 out, just remember he was a Wien Scab along with most of their founders. One last thought, when they parked their last 747 in the desert in the early 90s, 75% of their current list werent even on property. snooper

 

[machtuck]

Well, I need to recheck the language, but didn't I read that "voluntarily" vacated positions out west would NOT be protected?

Read: "involuntarily" vacated (FUR) positions would be protected to west pilots


And before you all jump up my freckle, allow me to re-read the language....I'm flying all day.

 

[machtuck]

Granted Colello



Yes liquidating. Doug Parker said it in several crew news. Not my words Doug’s

Really?...Absolutely stunning. "Liquidating"...the act of liquidating. Funny, I musta missed that day. Did USAirways in fact..."liquidate"? Did I miss something?....Did USAirways EVER go out of business? File CH7 forms with a BK court that were implemented?....wholesale selloff of carved-up assets CH 7 style?

Maybe, Parker chose the wrong wording?

Example: We will all die someday.
I am dying?

(when?...today, tomorrow? next Thursday?...5 years from now?)

Is this what the west hangs the "we saved you" mantra on?

Until anything ACTUALLY happens, it's speculative...maybe even "probable" but not happening.

Big difference.

 

[machtuck]

eastus,
.

As to furloughs from pre-merger left to factor in, I am not saying those who turned down recall will come back now. However, what is up with the 9 east pilots recalled to the west, with pilots senior to them are being furloughed, being given the opportunity to go back east, in direct conflict of the Transition agreement. What is up with new hires continuing their employment while those senior to them are furloughed. The only answere we are getting from USAPA is well its okay because by next april all the new hires will be gone. Well it is not okay with me.

Maybe you should re-read the TA..(or listen to Parkers crew news in Aug PHX..he's read it...) those east pilots retain recall rights to their rightful place in the EAST seniority list...and excercising that right will push an equal number of EAST pilots off the botton of the EAST list...NONE of this affects you out west...

(recall, this is where the fashionista, Magnum PI guy got in trouble...)

Call Parker or AH to discuss.

 

[cleardirect]

Really?...Absolutely stunning. "Liquidating"...the act of liquidating. Funny, I musta missed that day. Did USAirways in fact..."liquidate"? Did I miss something?....Did USAirways EVER go out of business? File CH7 forms with a BK court that were implemented?....wholesale selloff of carved-up assets CH 7 style?

Maybe, Parker chose the wrong wording?

Example: We will all die someday.
I am dying?

(when?...today, tomorrow? next Thursday?...5 years from now?)

Is this what the west hangs the "we saved you" mantra on?

Until anything ACTUALLY happens, it's speculative...maybe even "probable" but not happening.

Big difference.

OK tuck. Using your logic we can dispense with the BS AWA was going to go bankrupt. It did not happen. No paperwork was filed.

 

[ussnark]

OK tuck. Using your logic we can dispense with the BS AWA was going to go bankrupt. It did not happen. No paperwork was filed.

Except for the fact that Parker, your own CEO, made that assertion.

At the time, Parker was not the CEO of USAir and would not have known whether US was "on the edge" or not, a condition I assert is even questionable in his personal life.

You need better logic.