US Pilot Labor Thread 10/5 to 10/12 KEEP ON TOPIC

[machtuck]

All that Parker said was that absent this merger, and any other down the road, AWA would have probably had to file for chapter 11 at some point in time.

AWA was profitable the year the merger was consummated, and in-fact remained profitable afterwards. When finances were combined all debts were consolidated on the west balance sheet, thus showing the west operating at a loss.

As far as it not being relevant; I agree. It is not the west who keeps bringing it up over and over again. When easties like Mach bring it up and misrepresent what happened, I will not let that stand as "the last word."

He's also said in a PHX crew news video that sans merger, NONE of "us, including himself", would be in that room today"...look it up for yourself...

Draw your own conclusions, I only meant to address tazz's remark about East FUR's during the "acquiring" of USAirways...or words to that effect, and I'm sick and tired of hearing the "we bought you, you owe us" story.

The issue is closed as far as I'm concerned.

 

[tazz]

He's also said in a PHX crew news video that sans merger, NONE of "us, including himself", would be in that room today"...look it up for yourself...

Draw your own conclusions, I only meant to address tazz's remark about East FUR's during the "acquiring" of USAirways...or words to that effect, and I'm sick and tired of hearing the "we bought you, you owe us" story.

The issue is closed as far as I'm concerned.

Tuck, let's get this straight. I never said "we bought you, you owe us" Never. What I WILL say is, "we bought you, we don't OWE you anything".

Still haven't heard from HR.....

 

[machtuck]

tuck -

Believe what you wish. But what about this little puzzler: if America West had not come along into the merger, where would you and US Airways (the old version) be today?

Hint: Ever been to Dehli? How about Dubai?

I'm your huckleberry, this is JUST my game....

Don't know...

Where would you be?

Where will you be in 37 days at 0753?

what a stupid statement to put forward about who would be where...much less when...

(from such an insailable cuss..)


Lets see:

Chili....?

Tazz....?

Next....?

 

[ableoneable]

Haven't been posting here much lately, so catch me up. Why is the financial condition of the company - or the competence of the management team - in any way relevant to the seniority list integration of two pilot lists?

And if you say "career expectations", then I would ask - what are your career expectations now? Should a merger be announced with XYZ airline tomorrow - will you go along with whatever the other pilot group wants because your career expectations were nil on 10 Oct 2008?

He's also said in a PHX crew news video that sans merger, NONE of "us, including himself", would be in that room today"...look it up for yourself...

Draw your own conclusions, I only meant to address tazz's remark about East FUR's during the "acquiring" of USAirways...or words to that effect, and I'm sick and tired of hearing the "we bought you, you owe us" story.

The issue is closed as far as I'm concerned.

Neither of you will get any argument from me.

Let's consider this topic closed.

We must never speak of this again.

Anyone bringing it up again should be shunned by all and voluntarily spend a week in the cornfield.

Agreed?

 

[machtuck]

Tell ALL of your "club" out there to drop the "ownership" inuendo and I'll consider it.

Otherwise, no.

 

[Tiger 1050]

USAPAWATCH.COM


Watching, Waiting, Looking

We dislike repeating cliches but there really is no other way. Watch what they do, not what they say. In other words, here's a shovel - help us dig ourselves into a corner. That is what USAPA has essentially done with that and the irksome childish mantra of "be good union pilots."

However high minded the ideals of USAPA may have been when initially founded, it has been truly amazing to see a labor union based on simple but misguided pilot ideals founder so dramatically and so substantially on basic principles.

Not only is the union woefully underfunded on principles and monies it is also desperately devoid of honesty.

One of our points in every post has been that USAPA might be able to represent the pilots of US Airways if the current leadership, respected little, if at all by either east or west pilots, abdicated their positions prior to the scheduled elections to men and women with more democratic ideals. It is apparent they feel that the pressing importance of all the issues facing them preclude a wholesale change in leadership.

USAPA has a declining revenue base and a declining membership base. More and more current members are resigning and revoking dues check off. In fact, USAPA now has more nonmembers than members. Top leadership officials are making statements at east coast council meetings that defy logic in an attempt to shore up a growing sense of mistrust and dismay.

Rhetoric from both the west and east sides only goes so far to support an opinion until facts start getting in the way.

The lawsuits, the hard line positions on seniority, the futility of the current negotiating goals, the attacks on non members threatening their jobs, the disparate treatment of east and west by management, and the incredible shrinking airline industry are issues that USAPA has not and will not deal with honestly. We all wish it was 20 years ago but it isn't. The furloughees understand it only too well.

At the last session of negotiations with the company the depth of suspended reality between the union, its membership, and management was only too clearly illustrated. As the NAC attempted to negotiate one section with management they put out a release to the membership stating they were negotiating something 180 degrees opposite. Needless to say this has set back negotiations severely. Not only has the membership lost trust in USAPA, so has the company.

To be sure, a union and a company have, by nature, an adversarial relationship. But like every such relationship in our method of representation and governance there is a time honored level of basic trust that is required to advance the goals of everyone.

In an effort to forge ahead with some semblance of foresight and unity we can only say be responsible union pilots. We also would like to add the west notion of integrity. Put the two together and we might be able to make a go of this fragmented and mistrustful atmosphere that our union has, through lack of higher ideals and honesty, instigated among us. It doesn't have to be this way.

 

[ableoneable]

Tell ALL of your "club" out there to drop the "ownership" inuendo and I'll consider it.

Otherwise, no.

I believe that I said "everybody."

 

[nostradamus]

alpa united pilots are trying to decide what is a fair way to integrate with another airline. Their idea of fairness is a moving target. Now that they are in the midst of having 1000 fellow united pilots furloughed, they are contemplating rewriting alpa policy again.

"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder."

For the latest thoughts on alpa and united airlines nimby policy, click here.

 

[BottomFeeder]

Yeah... I am beginning to wonder if all this tit-for-tat is all a moot point now. What poetic just though! Cut off your nose to spite your face! Classic.

Well at least I am still relatively young and maybe I can get another career path laid out...

Talk about poetic

What are your current thoughts about furloughed pilots going to the bottom of a seniority list merger?

Should the financial outlook of ones employer trump a members LOS?

Irony?

 

[Tiger 1050]

Should the financial outlook of ones employer trump a members LOS?

In a word? Yes.

I know we have different opinions. However I was trying to point out that no matter our opinions we may all find ourselves in the unemployment line. Honestly I would have to chuckle a bit knowing USAPA never really had a chance without the west onboard...

Although ALPA is not the answer either. USAPA had better change its position if it wishes to see this through... JMO.

 

[machtuck]

Tuck, let's get this straight. I never said "we bought you, you owe us" Never. What I WILL say is, "we bought you, we don't OWE you anything".

Still haven't heard from HR.....

I rest my case....

And you WILL hear frm HR....all in good time.

Admittedly, it's a slow process, so are freight trains...but the impact is immense.

 

[Tiger 1050]

I rest my case....

And you WILL hear frm HR....all in good time.

Admittedly, it's a slow process, so are freight trains...but the impact is immense.

Are you serious?!? You betray yourself if you are going to pursue this little web-board squabble. But then I suppose I should consider the source...

 

[tazz]

Are you serious?!? You betray yourself if you are going to pursue this little web-board squabble. But then I suppose I should consider the source...

Tiger, I do believe Tuck is referring to usapa firing me for non payment of dues. Even he should know there is no merit in pursuing the pinata joke. If he does, however, I am confident it will go nowhere. Besides, this job just isn't worth worrying about any more.

PS: look at it from HR's perspective, an immature poster with several posts writhing in ecstacy over the termination of west pilots pushing the termination of a west pilot for something as lame as that. They have better things to do with their time.

 

[Phoenix]

alpa united pilots are trying to decide what is a fair way to integrate with another airline. Their idea of fairness is a moving target. Now that they are in the midst of having 1000 fellow united pilots furloughed, they are contemplating rewriting alpa policy again.

"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder."

For the latest thoughts on alpa and united airlines nimby policy, click here.

"Keep comments about this award to a minimum to protect our collective futures"

Brilliant ALPA speak. Lets keep our mouths shut about how the mother ship abandoned union principles and threw members under the bus... because keeping our mouth shut protects the mother ship, err.. our collective futures.

Be afraid.. Be very afraid.. you are nothing without us. If we don't constantly remind you that you are nothing without us then who will?

 

[machtuck]

Are you serious?!? You betray yourself if you are going to pursue this little web-board squabble. But then I suppose I should consider the source...

Oh, tazzy is going to hear from HR over other things besides his penata comments, I'll just let things play out...I may or may not go anywhere with his penata party remarks with Chili and the others...depends.