US ALPA/USAPA/West Thread for week of 3/22-29

[AAA73Pilot]

......... a very high priority for immediate assistance from Alpa.

Yep you're right. Cut the line to the mother ship and problem solved. Great "Union" isn't it? NOT!!

 

[AAA73Pilot]

I hate to interrupt all the usapians, .......... but just be careful. You may get what you are wishing for.

Yeah, yeah, I know your laughing and mocking me at the moment, thats ok. Go ahead, let it all out.

Not laughing, just hoping USAPA prevails. But that's nothing new.

 

[b737fo]

So successful DFR suits aren't as rare as some "experts" will have us believe. Thanks for that post AAA73Pilot. I don't have a reason to file one myself as USAPA doesn't represent me as a CBA but it is nice to see the truth out there instead of what someone would tell me is fact.

 

[EastUS]

So successful DFR suits aren't as rare as some "experts" will have us believe.

Not against Alpa it seems.... It kinda' surprises me though..Isn't ALpa the "best representation" possible? One wonders why the DFR suits exist in the first place then, much less why they're doing so well against Alpa in court.

 

[b737fo]

Not against Alpa it seems....

Exactly! If a large CBA with money to burn (waste) not only a bunch of lawyers but mailing extraneous messages has to settle then there is hope that DFR lawsuits can rightly be won in other venues with different organizations if they don't live up to their representational duties.

 

[EastUS]

Exactly! If a large CBA with money to burn (waste) not only a bunch of lawyers but mailing extraneous messages has to settle then there is hope that DFR lawsuits can rightly be won in other venues with different organizations if they don't live up to their representational duties.

Gasp!!...You can NOT even begin to be suggesting that ALpa's not lived up to their representational duties!!?? While you're rejoicing in the success of the DFR suits against Alpa...realize that among other items, the bogus list passed that showed MDA people as "furloughed",....might well just come back to sink your little Nic ship completely when things are resolved in court. There's a great deal more going on than you've chosen to make yourself aware of.

Have a good evening...and save me some of the Koolaide....

 

[b737fo]

Gasp!!...You can NOT even begin to be suggesting that ALpa's not lived up to their representational duties!!?? While you're rejoicing in the success of the DFR suits against Alpa...realize that among other items, the bogus list passed that showed MDA people as "furloughed",....might well just come back to sink your little Nic ship completely when things are resolved in court. There's a great deal more going on than you've chosen to make yourself aware of.

Have a good evening...and save me some of the Koolaide....

You know what they say about people who assume....Actually I am pretty aware of the MDA thing since I know someone involved in said situation. As to the threat of sinking the Nic ship, that doesn't scare me since I don't believe different conclusions in ordering the seniority list would result other then those specific MDA pilots if they have success in their legal endeavors.

As to the Koolaide, I don't make the batches. You'll have to wait until April 17. Then there might be plenty to go around for everyone. Good evening sir.

 

[end_of_alpa]

East,
With all due respect, just what do you think will happen to 90% of the AWA seniority list if USAPA wins and does enforce their DOH stand according to their C&BL's? Even if they create a fence, which is what they suggest, it would effectively limit us to the west. Well, what if the system out west continues to remain stagnate? What if Parker wants all future aircraft to go east? USAPA was asked this question during the PHX road show and their answer was we would be able to bid out east but of course at our DOH. So this creates a situation where you could find a west block holding Captain wanting to move east but due to this DOH crap he will now find himself as a junior F/O most likely on reserve! How is this fair? This "fence" is nothing more than a way for USAPA to appear as though they are fair to all pilots but we can see through this... So again what do you think will happen to the pilots at AWA if USAPA is voted in? Actually, a better question is why do you spew rhetoric about real unions when you will effectively be voting for a "union", and I use the term loosely, that will screw 1800 pilots? I know, I know this is an exercise in futility...
Take care Mike...

According to the posts I've seen you have all said you didn't have any desire to come out East anyway so why would it matter?

Without the merger there would have been nothing to bid out East for you ANYWAY. So it's a moot point. As far as East bidding West.....well, we're now back into the hypotheticals and the same old argument. We're not gloating, we're just fatiqued from the stalemate.

Screw 1,800 pilots or screw 3,200 pilots. Ah, the dilema.

I agree, back to an exercise in futility. Actually, I do believe some good will come of what happens when the vote tallys.

If USAPA is the CBA, I know that most of you will want a scortched earth policy. I would be very careful about that. COurts, companies AND unions under RLA take a very DIM view of employees trying to "gum" up the system.

Sincerely, I DO NOT WANT ANY EMPLOYEE LOSING THEIR JOBS FOR ANY NEFARIOUS ACTIVITIES IN THE WORKPLACE.

Besides, I believe a satisfactory solution will be found and over time it will become a moot point if we can get the West involved.

But that will be entirely up to you. Good luck.

 

[end_of_alpa]

How many times do we need to cover this ground?

To use your own phrase, "DOH Sux..cuz"; In my case it could very well mean downgrading to the right seat and finding myself junior to, and therefore on the street before, a multitude of east pilots who were furloughed at the merger date.

And before you come back with conditions and restrictions I again direct you to the east merger proposal. A stance that they have never been willing to modify, that directs that any furlough that occurs within 12 months of a recall will result in the furloughee returning to the street but conversely directs that after twelve months furloughs are to be by DOH/LOS.

Sorry but DOH is a land grab designed to make the west pilot pay the price for the east pilots' past career stagnation.

Though I agree circumstances have hosed the east group don't expect me to write you a check.

Back to the question never answered.

How can you not term an east furloughee and a west captain exchanging positions a windfall for the east pilot?

I wasn't furloughed but I lost 13 years to a guy that was hired when I WAS a Captain and now he can bid in FRONT OF ME to capture the attrition, bases equipment and SIZE that none of you had before? The award got ugly FAST after the first 517 pilots.

Why is the concept of date of hire for the first 517 and accelerated advancement for West pilots such an EASY concept and EXPERIMENT of a solution for you to accept? Maybe Nicolau figured that by severing "the head" that it would be sufficient to carry the day for the new GLORIOUS ALPA union at US Airways. Personally, I think he made it his personal experiment to see if any labor union could survive the strain of mergers to prove a point.

Time is the master here and time will tell.

I didn't vote for the bargaining position the MEC took. But I am voting for USAPA. The Nicolau award will NEVER see the light of day so you can continue to pout. But USAPA will be on this property for quite some time, regardless what the pundits say.

I've spoken to the new hires that have come aboard and they know that ALPA isn't the answer....a strong, cohesive pilot group is.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Looks like the bigger they are, the harder they fall....

Read THIS eye opener:

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/t...nterstitialskip

Read the graph at the end....the graphics don't transfer well.

 

[Bear96]

Here's the funny part... never even got a Fcuck you very much from ALPA after my 12 years of accident/incident-free service...just a furlough letter..plain and simple.

Let me guess . . . the furlough was ALPA's fault . . . and no USAPA-represented pilot will ever be furloughed, right?

 

[sharktooth]

East;
In my humble perception, Date of Hire was removed from ALPA merger policy 16 YEARS AGO. In fact I believe it was at the hand of US Air representation. Speaking of what if's....what if we merged with yet another MORE senior pilot group?? Would you sing DOH then? I think not (is there ANYONE more senior by DOH than the FORMER AAA pilots?).

Guess what? DOH is NOT the basic concept of the ALPA merger policy. Further, the recent legislation now helps a relative seniority argument as a result of the AA/TWA merger. USAPA was born from a van full of pilots that were upset because DOH was not delivered as promised (Guess what further?.....Not ALPA National's fault!).

ALPA (while not perfect) is the best representation and provider of benefits for this group. ALPA is the means to the quickest contract improvements. Step up and help us get money for all of us.

PS...What does "Seniority is like a crew meal" mean????

Couple of corrections.

When DOH was removed from the merger policy (note: it was not forbidden as a major consideration) the USAir pilots agitated for another union, based in Laconia. Had the southern pilots worn their thinking caps, it might have happened but efforts to resurrect the PI MEC were pretty strong then.

I, as well as a couple of RLA attorneys, believe that "recent legislation" helps DOH for groups not sharing the same union. Read it.

ALPA is you. As in, they will not get you anything. They simply arrange the chairs in the room, for a rather large fee.

USAPA is you. As in, aside from dues money, there is peer pressure (a hallmark of a local union) which can be more powerful than money. You want the chairs rearranged, you do it.

ALPA is like dealing with the Feds vs local government. Years vs days response. The ability to hide behind attorneys/paperwork, even the perceived distance provides skirts. "pressing the meat" has never meant more.

 

[elixir]

Let me guess . . . the furlough was ALPA's fault . . . and no USAPA-represented pilot will ever be furloughed, right?

Did I say that?...did you read that anywhere in my several posts? Of course not..and you infer that I'm cheering for USAPA..show me where I've done that also...

Stop putting your words in other's mouth's.

The manner in which the 2000 guys were "handled" offended us all.

 

[Leonidas]

Did I say that?...did you read that anywhere in my several posts? Of course not..and you infer that I'm cheering for USAPA..show me where I've done that also...

Stop putting your words in other's mouth's.

The manner in which the 2000 guys were "handled" offended us all.

Actually Elixir, you did say just that, I know you didn't mean it that way, but you did blame alpa for your furlough, go back and read your post.

 

[EastUS]

Actually Elixir, you did say just that, I know you didn't mean it that way, ......

Umm...Huh?...What?

b737fo:"You know what they say about people who assume....Actually I am pretty aware of the MDA thing since I know someone involved in said situation. As to the threat of sinking the Nic ship, that doesn't scare me since I don't believe different conclusions in ordering the seniority list would result other then those specific MDA pilots if they have success in their legal endeavors"

I'll take points off for my assuming that you weren't aware of the list issues. I couldn't understand your evident joy in seeing the DFR success against Alpo if you realized that. Frankly; I still can't understand said joy in any case, given that you're an Alpa supporter. We differ in our beliefs as to what that litigation will likely mean for the Nic though. Once it's determined that the proffered list was indeed bogus via but the first, court addressed segment of the working "furloghees", and that camel's nose enters the tent....well...we'll all eventually see. You know someone involved in that situation?...and yet..you're just fine with them being stapled forever below "Save Dave"?..not to mention yourself of course?...now; that's true unionism at it's finest sir. Let's raise another hearty cheer for the AWA "Righteous Position": Yeeeeaay AWA-Alpa!