- Jun 14, 2008
- 277
- 27
God help me!
You just threw one right over the plate, waist high. My reply must be the whole truth: "There IS a god!" 
UU Vixen For A Day!
US Airways Pilots Labor Thread 4/15-4/22
- Thread starter Richard
- Start date
- Status
God help me!
You just threw one right over the plate, waist high. My reply must be the whole truth: "There IS a god!" UU Vixen For A Day!
You would if you were their chief pilot.
Oh... you were implying a favorable ruling for Leonidas= a win for all West pilots.
I happen to agree.
The West would win a victory for itself and all Unionized labor. Denying a rogue group the ability to improperly abuse labor law, would be quite a win indeed. Setting another precedence against the unethical discrimination toward a minority group within a union, quite a triumph. Upholding the legal systems use of binding arbitration for dispute resolution, such an achievement.
What a "handful".
des nudo
Advanced
- Oct 28, 2008
- 161
- 9
Ha!...nor would anyone other than a west pilot who "strikes gold" via G. Nicolau.
I hear from close friends that many 23+ year NEVER FURLOUGHED pilots out east will be junior to a BOY...yeah, I said it...BOY...who was 6....SIX...6..YEARS OLD when they got hired as AIRLINE PILOTS at USAIRWAYS......
Read that again, and convince me and the world that was a fair ruling....
(quivering with anticipation of legitimate replies)
although not holding my breath for anything other than:
(Binding....you "gambled", you lose...I win...responses)
Thats all that can possibly be posted....to h%ll with a "policy"....all mergers should be crapshoots...
right?
nostradamus
Veteran
- Dec 7, 2004
- 2,038
- 0
Methane alert.
prechilill
Veteran
- Nov 28, 2002
- 2,544
- 3,406
Yes, that is correct. I am looking forward to moving to PHL and captaining an Airbus there. Have a nice evening!
nudo,
have not heard from you in a while.
Oh... Your quote above....I think You heard wrong.
E
EastUS
Guest
BS
I can understand the pretended "disbelief" though. Such observations don't really cast the "Sacred St. Nic Gift" in a very good light...do they? Who, other than the westies via Nic, could even make up such an utter absurdity, much less ever form their lips towards terms like "fair"..and "equitable" when describing it?.....
E
EastUS
Guest
E
EastUS
Guest
Oh..I dunno. The statement's actually true, before all the standard, self-righteous horse-hockey subsequently issues forth = "The West would win a victory for itself.."
electricjet98
Senior
Docket #358 - USAPA should have it up in a few days, but in the meantime, here are a few excerpts. This case would be interesting even if we were not directly involved and impacted by it!
ISSUE #3: Whether, in a reasonably cost-neutral manner, West Pilots
now on furlough can be recalled and East Pilots furloughed in their place.
Plaintiffs Contend: Yes. There are more than enough East Pilots working
in positions for which the West Pilots on furlough are fully trained. There
are more than enough East Pilots flying in and out of the domicile cities to
which the currently furloughed West Pilots were assigned. Any costs to
the Airline from recalling West Pilots and furloughing East Pilots can be
set off against funds that the Airline will soon be due to pay to East Pilots.
Plaintiffs’ ISSUE #2: Whether USAPA so violated its duty of fair
representation that the Court should order the airline and USAPA to
submit to NMB mediation/arbitration to create and implement a single
joint collective bargaining agreement that incorporates the Nicolau
Award seniority list.
Plaintiffs Contend: Yes. See Chicago & N. W. Ry. Co. v. United Transp.
Union, 402 U.S. 570, 577 (1971) (holding that the duty to bargain in good
faith “was intended to be more than a mere statement of policy or
exhortation to the parties; rather, it was designed to be a legal obligation,
enforceable by whatever appropriate means might be developed on a caseby-
case basis.â€); United Air Lines, Inc. v. Air Line Pilots Assn., Intern.
2008 WL 4936847, 35 (N.D. Ill. 2008) (“[T]he obligation to make and
maintain agreements without interruption to the carrier's operations is …
an affirmative legal obligation, enforceable by … injunction.â€).
Plaintiffs’ ISSUE #4: Whether USAPA so violated its duty of fair
representation that the Court should direct it to make whatever
concessions are necessary to allow the airline to recall furloughed West
Pilots and, if necessary to furlough equivalently trained East Pilots in
their place.
Plaintiffs Contend: Yes. See 30A C.J.S. Equity § 131 (“Equity regards
that as done which ought to be done. * * * The broad meaning or effect of
this maxim is that where an obligation rests on a person to perform an act
equity will treat the person in whose favor the act should be performed as
clothed with the same interest and entitled to the same rights as though the
act were actually performed.â€).
Plaintiffs’ ISSUE #5: Whether USAPA so violated its duty of fair
representation in disputing the validity of the Nicolau Arbitration Award
that the Court should award Plaintiffs their reasonable attorneys’ fees
and non-taxable costs.
Plaintiffs Contend: Yes. Intl. Union of Petroleum & Indus. Workers v.
Western Indus. Maintenance, Inc., 707 F.2d 425, 428 (9th Cir. 1983)
(“[A]n unjustified refusal to abide by an arbitrator's award may equate an
act taken in bad faith, vexatiously or for oppressive reasons.â€); Phoenix
Newspapers, Inc. v. Phoenix Mailers Union Local 752, Intern. Bhd. of
Teamsters, 989 F.2d 1077, 1084 (9th Cir. 1993) (same); see also Intl.
Assn. of Machinists & Aerospace Workers, Dist. 776 v. Texas Steel Co.,
538 F.2d 1116, 1122 (5th Cir. 1976) (awarding fees because “the refusal
to abide by [an] arbitration award [creating a compromise integration of
seniority lists] was without justification.â€).
Plaintiff’s Depositions
Deposition and trial testimony of Al Hemenway
Deposition and trial testimony of Steven Bradford
K. ESTIMATED LENGTH OF TRIAL
1.5 hours for opening statements and closing arguments
4.0. hours for Plaintiff(s) case, including cross-examination of other parties'
witnesses
6.0 hours for Defendant(s) case, including cross-examination of other
parties' witnesses
0.5 hours for Plaintiff(s) rebuttal
12.0 hours TOTAL ESTIMATED TIME
How accurate can that estimated length of trial be???
ISSUE #3: Whether, in a reasonably cost-neutral manner, West Pilots
now on furlough can be recalled and East Pilots furloughed in their place.
Plaintiffs Contend: Yes. There are more than enough East Pilots working
in positions for which the West Pilots on furlough are fully trained. There
are more than enough East Pilots flying in and out of the domicile cities to
which the currently furloughed West Pilots were assigned. Any costs to
the Airline from recalling West Pilots and furloughing East Pilots can be
set off against funds that the Airline will soon be due to pay to East Pilots.
Plaintiffs’ ISSUE #2: Whether USAPA so violated its duty of fair
representation that the Court should order the airline and USAPA to
submit to NMB mediation/arbitration to create and implement a single
joint collective bargaining agreement that incorporates the Nicolau
Award seniority list.
Plaintiffs Contend: Yes. See Chicago & N. W. Ry. Co. v. United Transp.
Union, 402 U.S. 570, 577 (1971) (holding that the duty to bargain in good
faith “was intended to be more than a mere statement of policy or
exhortation to the parties; rather, it was designed to be a legal obligation,
enforceable by whatever appropriate means might be developed on a caseby-
case basis.â€); United Air Lines, Inc. v. Air Line Pilots Assn., Intern.
2008 WL 4936847, 35 (N.D. Ill. 2008) (“[T]he obligation to make and
maintain agreements without interruption to the carrier's operations is …
an affirmative legal obligation, enforceable by … injunction.â€).
Plaintiffs’ ISSUE #4: Whether USAPA so violated its duty of fair
representation that the Court should direct it to make whatever
concessions are necessary to allow the airline to recall furloughed West
Pilots and, if necessary to furlough equivalently trained East Pilots in
their place.
Plaintiffs Contend: Yes. See 30A C.J.S. Equity § 131 (“Equity regards
that as done which ought to be done. * * * The broad meaning or effect of
this maxim is that where an obligation rests on a person to perform an act
equity will treat the person in whose favor the act should be performed as
clothed with the same interest and entitled to the same rights as though the
act were actually performed.â€).
Plaintiffs’ ISSUE #5: Whether USAPA so violated its duty of fair
representation in disputing the validity of the Nicolau Arbitration Award
that the Court should award Plaintiffs their reasonable attorneys’ fees
and non-taxable costs.
Plaintiffs Contend: Yes. Intl. Union of Petroleum & Indus. Workers v.
Western Indus. Maintenance, Inc., 707 F.2d 425, 428 (9th Cir. 1983)
(“[A]n unjustified refusal to abide by an arbitrator's award may equate an
act taken in bad faith, vexatiously or for oppressive reasons.â€); Phoenix
Newspapers, Inc. v. Phoenix Mailers Union Local 752, Intern. Bhd. of
Teamsters, 989 F.2d 1077, 1084 (9th Cir. 1993) (same); see also Intl.
Assn. of Machinists & Aerospace Workers, Dist. 776 v. Texas Steel Co.,
538 F.2d 1116, 1122 (5th Cir. 1976) (awarding fees because “the refusal
to abide by [an] arbitration award [creating a compromise integration of
seniority lists] was without justification.â€).
Plaintiff’s Depositions
Deposition and trial testimony of Al Hemenway
Deposition and trial testimony of Steven Bradford
K. ESTIMATED LENGTH OF TRIAL
1.5 hours for opening statements and closing arguments
4.0. hours for Plaintiff(s) case, including cross-examination of other parties'
witnesses
6.0 hours for Defendant(s) case, including cross-examination of other
parties' witnesses
0.5 hours for Plaintiff(s) rebuttal
12.0 hours TOTAL ESTIMATED TIME
How accurate can that estimated length of trial be???
traderjake
Veteran
- Aug 30, 2002
- 5,669
- 9,308
And your point is what?
That the West pilots are suppose to give us their jobs because we worked for a stagnant, poorly run airline that shrunk from 400 to 200 airplanes?
Longevity is not seniority.
I am certain each corporation has their own language, but, I am pretty sure most think that "total revenue - total cost", indeed, equals yield. That would be both sides of the equation.
Please help me understand what you mean.
Um, according to Tom Legow, yield is not just a component of RASM, but is a result of the difference between RASM and CASM, hopefully positive. Your example ignores what yield really is, as Tom and I understand it.
Anyone can redefine yield to mean anything they want but your example is somewhat rare, using yield to define an "average revenue" without considering cost.
The vast majority of people on the planet earth would tend to disagree with you. Even west pilots.
- Status
