US Airways Pilots Labor Thread 4/15-4/22

[88 B.T.D.]

I don't get on these boards much, and don't have the time to look for all of the things that were said; however being still an active reservist, I can say that there are many things that go on in this world where hundreds of people can be at risk that never make the news. For this reason, even though NLC seems to be someone I would rather not share a flightdeck with, I will give him the benfit of the doubt that his story is possible.

Found this article on Kittyhawk:
According to an article from the Association on Naval Aviation, during the next 10 years, Kitty Hawk and Air Wing II would complete six Vietnam conflict combat cruises, earn one Presidential Unit Citation, four Navy Unit Commendations, a Meritorious Unit Commendation and many other awards.

America's oldest active warship, Kitty Hawk with embarked Carrier Air Wing 5 recently operated with coalition forces in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom, the multinational coalition effort to liberate the Iraqi people, eliminate Iraq's weapons of mass destruction and end the regime of Saddam Hussein.

 

[EastUS]

I will give him the benfit of the doubt that his story is possible.

I gently suggest your actually reading "the story" in question, in it's entirety, first. This isn't any issue I'd make accusations or observations on lightly. As one now long out of "the business", I appreciate and thank you for your current service.

 

[pilotn79]

If USAPA closes its doors, ALPA does NOT magically return. We are a non-union carrier for at least another year.

We have not had a union since USAPA slithered onto the property.

 

[nycbusdriver]

We have not had a union since USAPA slithered onto the property.

You may feel that way, but so far the government of the United States thinks otherwise, as do two thirds of USAirways pilots, and that airline company headquartered on W. Rio Salado Parkway in Tempe.

But you can think whatever you like. It's really none of my business what you choose to think.

 

[electricjet98]

If that be the case, I will gleefully watch the rest of our non-union pilot group endure the company imposed LOA 93, and worse.
If USAPA closes its doors, ALPA does NOT magically return. We are a non-union carrier for at least another year. Think what the Tempe brain trust can do to us in that time.

Nicolau award? That's part of a contract.

Contract? That's history!

Feeling a little vindictive today are you? Some would say that this long-held "Superiority Complex" and general arrogance is what has gotten the east exactly where they are today.

I would doubt that USAPA would just "close its doors". I believe that if they petitioned the NMB for a new election due to their own wish to cease operation, that would be allowed. I believe that the normal "2-year rule" is to prevent opportunistic union drives which continually harass an existing union and force it to continually devote funds just to defend it existance.

However, even more likely is that a more level-headed group takes the reins in an effort to serve both pilot groups equally...not serve one group primarily and at the expense of the second group while giving high-priced lip service to their concerns.

Actually, if the leadership is removed, who do you think will be elected into the leadership roles to fill the vacuum? Schoppaul?

And, no. Once the union goes, then there is no signatory to the contracts in place. Without two parties, i.e. the company and the pilot group, the contract goes away.

The JetBlue pilots signed individual contract with the company as a condition of their employment. I'm not sure of the content, but I believe the length was five years. That meant that the company would only have to endure any particular pilot for 5 years if they realized in retrospect that they had a loser on their hands.

The union goes away...the contracts go away.

I hear his goats have their eye's on you!

And USAPA, just like hemeroids, won't simply "go away"!

 

[Waketurbulence]

You may feel that way, but so far the government of the United States thinks otherwise, as do two thirds of USAirways pilots, and that airline company headquartered on W. Rio Salado Parkway in Tempe.

But you can think whatever you like. It's really none of my business what you choose to think.

Can you list the accomplishments of usapa thus far?

 

[cleardirect]

Actually, if the leadership is removed, who do you think will be elected into the leadership roles to fill the vacuum? Schoppaul?

Are you saying that the only leaders that you have in the east are the ones currently running the place? No one else has any talent or ability? I believe that Kevin Ayala ran. Never held a union position before. Maybe look outside the usual suspects.

No replacing the current radical leadership with more moderate, responsible people should be the goal of everyone.

Ask your rep a couple of questions:

Who is determining the legal strategy for the Addington case? Is it a group, an individual, sub committee, the entire BPR?

I can guarantee you a surprising and disappointing answer. Remember how usapa is structured. The BPR has the financial responsibility for this association. Currently this litigation is the single largest expense. Ask who is determining how and how much money is being spent.

Then decide if Cleary is the man to follow into the future.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Can you list the accomplishments of usapa thus far?

Go back and read the thread (and the previous) for the last couple days. I have posted several things, many of which are primarily for the benefit of the west pilots, and posted them several times over the past few months. Go back and read them.

Aside from that, what in my post spawned that question? I was simply responding to someone who questioned the existence (not the performance) of the union.

We obviously have differences on how the union is performing.

The fact that it exists, though painful to some, is not in question.

Please try to keep up.

 

[tazz]

BS. (What's surprising there?) You're partially correct though = I can't claim sole credit, since a host of people actually proved it. Would you care for links to the posted material proving the issue? Your own "support" for such bogus "heroics" here speaks volumes about, well...you do the math. "Integrity", very clearly; just ain't part of your little equation out there though, other than as an absurd little slogan....although childish fantasy, quite obviously, plays a large role. Aren't you all supposedly little spartan "soldiers" in the "ARMY of Leonidas", just for starters? I guess it's easy for you to overlook completely phony "heroics".....pretty sickening though.

Whatever happens in court will happen. None can now know what that will actually be. I realize the bulk of west posters are currently, frolicking about in an orgy of venomous glee, but that's no excuse for overlooking basic deceny within larger issues.

You don't even know who the guy really is, heck, I don't either. So with that in mind how do you prove what he has and has not done in his life?

 

[tazz]

In other (and fewer) words, a few like minded posters egged each other on with a string of "unlikely" possibilities then congratulated each other on "proving" something.

Jim

Exactly! Hardly a definition of proof.

 

[tazz]

Works for me Seriously; I'd think anyone clinically insane that actually wanted to mix all the obvious venom together in cockpits...period.

Gee, isn't it you who previously claimed to be the consummate professional, far above such things? Now management would be insane to place you with a west pilot? Which side of your face are you speaking out of today?

 

[EastUS]

Gee, isn't it you who previously claimed to be the consummate professional, far above such things? Now management would be insane to place you with a west pilot? Which side of your face are you speaking out of today?

I don't personally imagine having problems with handling your sorts on an aircraft. I simply can't see any actual, operational benefits to doing so, much less would I expect much open communication and real cooperation from you. A cockpit's a place to fight "from" not "in". Given that both yourself, and so many other west pilots feel it's improper, and/or even unsafe, to even be in the company of any east pilot while flying....going so far as to so much as even refuse having any east person on your jump seats....well...I feel you've answered your own questions there...as well as the "Which side of your face are you speaking out of today?"

 

[Metroyet]

Go back and read the thread (and the previous) for the last couple days. I have posted several things, many of which are primarily for the benefit of the west pilots, and posted them several times over the past few months. Go back and read them.

I have to remind you that the issues that USAPA is "working so hard on the Wests' behalf" were solely CAUSED BY THE FORMATION OF USAPA. Sorry. Had you guys just manned up, and honored your agreements in the first place, none of those grieved items would have ever existed.

 

[EastUS]

You don't even know who the guy really is, heck, I don't either. So with that in mind how do you prove what he has and has not done in his life?

Sigh..OK; just for starters..how many 60+ year old pilots that flew in Vnam do you currently have flying Airbii at AWA?..Ummm...ANY?. Now: How many of "those" are entirely clueless about the logistics within USN flight training during the last phases of the war? Shall we continue? Just go back and read all the consummate horse-hockey this person was pathetically attempting to "sell", versus the observations made by people that actually knew....and then get back to us all here. Until then? = Spare me any more pleasant hot-air zephyrs from the balmy desert...and I do mean "balmy".

 

[EastUS]

Right, with "proof" such as that who needs facts...

Jim

With such an opinionated outlook...no "proof" would ever suit you...and..btw...I hardly believe you're the least bit qualified to speak of any war theater ops yourself...and I'm entirely uncertain as to just where your ever-opiniated "expertise" in this issue comes from...