US Airways Pilots Labor Thread 4/15-4/22

[BoeingBoy]

While there was no flying each other's airplanes, the period between getting a SOC and integrating ops was only a few months, not years as in this case. Or that was the case with the PI/US merger. And there was the "Northern" and "Southern" division thing.

Jim

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

Very informative column released today by Holly Hegeman, PlaneBusiness.com. It's copyrighted, so cannot be posted here, but it provides the best "Cliff Notes" version of the two pilot groups' mess that has been written to date.

If I were a usapian, I would be completely embarrassed by what she has written - now, every airline affectionado/employee/interested party in the country/world will know of the slime that that union is made of. Only thing missing was mention of the slime lawyer you have hired.

The usapa experiment is about to hit a brick wall.

 

[EastUS]

Did PSA/USAir ever refer to West or East Metal? No. Did Piedmont/USAir ever refer to South or North Metal? No.

Those operations were all merged by date of hire........

 

[EastUS]

......world will know of the slime that that union is made of. Only thing missing was mention of the slime lawyer you have hired.

A self-proclaimed, but entirely fake "war hero" speaks of others being "slime". Folks...I've now seen it all.,

 

[Metroyet]

Those operations were all merged by date of hire........

"Boy the way Glenn Miller Played....Songs that made the "hit parade" ...Guys like us, we had it made...those were the days....
And you knew who you were then!! Goils were Goils and men were men. Mister we could use a man like Herboit Hoover again....
Didn't need no welfare state. Everybody pulled his weight, Gee our old La Salle ran Great...Those were the days....

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

"Boy the way Glenn Miller Played....Songs that made the "hit parade" ...Guys like us, we had it made...those were the days....
And you knew who you were then!! Goils were Goils and men were men. Mister we could use a man like Herboit Hoover again....
Didn't need no welfare state. Everybody pulled his weight, Gee our old La Salle ran Great...Those were the days....

At least Archie was funny.

 

[prechilill]

I hope we can see a peaceful, orderly removal of the USAPA leadership once their lies collapse on them. It is what needs to happen for the benefit of the USAirways pilots. A lot of emotions are at play and everyone has an opinion, but labor leaders have a way of tainting even basic, daily activities with sour feelings all the way to the end. They never seem to want to let go of the power. As with most regimes forwarding illegitimate actions, their removal could be brutal. This is why ALPA had insurance for their officers because they (ALPA officers) are liable to member lawsuits. I know USAPA failed to protect their leaders from this type of scenario and why post- Nicolau events will be interesting to watch, but the last thing I would want to see happen is heads roll to the point where their immediate families are affected. Brafford, King, Theuer need to just go away quietly. Perhaps even leave the airline all together. Quit stringing along their constituents with more false hopes and unobtainable promises- just step down with a "I'm sorry". The longer they keep this facade alive the more emotion and wrath they will endure from their own pilots. Brafford needs to step down now for his own good. He is finished. His lie is finished. It's over.

 

[nycbusdriver]

I hope we can see a peaceful, orderly removal of the USAPA leadership once their lies collapse on them. It is what needs to happen for the benefit of the USAirways pilots.

If that be the case, I will gleefully watch the rest of our non-union pilot group endure the company imposed LOA 93, and worse.

If USAPA closes its doors, ALPA does NOT magically return. We are a non-union carrier for at least another year. Think what the Tempe brain trust can do to us in that time.

Nicolau award? That's part of a contract.

Contract? That's history!

 

[tazz]

They will move on, in defeat, consoling each other with stories of separate operations indefinitely and cozy dreams of a massive snapback that Parker is just going to gladly hand over to them- until that day comes and goes for a snapback and they are still seeing LOA93 paychecks. They will wake up one day and find we are working in combined operations due to possibly a court order or perhaps some other enforcement mechanism (trusteeship?), pout about it, scratch their heads, and then think up a new boogie man or conspiracy theory to vent their frustrations on. It sure is easier to make up a villain than have to find one looking at you in a mirror. I guess it is just an inherent mechanism of coping- nothing else can explain why they choose to live in a bubble, around here at least.

Prechill, I disagree. Should we prevail in court I predict the activation of the CIRP, massive sickouts via the Employee Assistance Program, and many, many resignations. This will not go down lightly when reality hits them.

 

[tazz]

A self-proclaimed, but entirely fake "war hero" speaks of others being "slime". Folks...I've now seen it all.,

Get over the war hero thing. You never have proven him wrong. Your opinion doesn't count as real proof.

 

[Megasnoop]

An interesting read on how the Supreme Court feels germane fees should be handled

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getc...mp;invol=97-428

Damn, this objector thing is tougher than I thought. But, Supreme Court says objectors can go straight to federal court bypassing an arbitrator, and the amount being challenged has to be held in escrow. Hmmm, I may have to pay it, but USAPA cannot spend it, in the words of Arte Johnson ( spoken with a comical german accent).....veeeerrry interesting.

In Miller V ALPA, Supreme Court relied on AFT/AFL-CIO V Hudson regarding germane expenses. Hudson said partisan politics (donating to the Democratic Party) and ideological causes (supporting card check) are not germane expenses. So totally different issue from defending a DFR, which IS germane expense. The issue was ALPA using agency fees for political activities outside the “purposes of collective bargaining, contract administration, and grievance adjustmentâ€￾ and then forcing non-members through an absurd maze to protest and get their money back. Non-members protested the percentage of union dues they had to pay. They won. Court spanked ALPA. They also protested ALPAs procedures to complain. They won that too. ALPA dragged whole process on for 6 years. And you think USAPA is using delay-tactics? Glad they won. It saved me money when I was non-member.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getc...5&invol=292

No guarantee of an escrow on agency fees either. Rolled into another case as well:

http://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F2/8...90.85-3016.html

“the percentage of the TPPA's total expenditures for said membership year that was expended in support of partisan political or ideological causes not germane to the work or policy of the TPPA in the realm of collective bargaining.â€￾

It was also about First Amendment rights:

“objecting employees have a First Amendment right to "prevent the Union's spending a part of their required service fees to contribute to political candidates and to express political views unrelated to its duties as exclusive bargaining representative."

USAPA is defending a DFR. Plain and simple. Its germane no matter how you slice it. Think it means something else, go ahead sue us.

“At the same time, "non-union employees do have a constitutional right to 'prevent the Union's spending a part of their required service fees to contribute to political candidates and to express political views unrelated to its duties as exclusive bargaining representative.' " Id.

“However, Hudson holds that a 100% escrow placement is not mandatory, for it would create "the serious defect of depriving the Union of access to some escrowed funds that it is unquestionably entitled to retain."

Snoop

 

[Megasnoop]

No, but we still call the USAir pilots "rustheads".

And the horse you rode in on, you BUBBA! (That was a JOKE!)

As with most regimes forwarding illegitimate actions, their removal could be brutal. This is why ALPA had insurance for their officers because they (ALPA officers) are liable to member lawsuits. I know USAPA failed to protect their leaders from this type of scenario and why post- Nicolau events will be interesting to watch, but the last thing I would want to see happen is heads roll to the point where their immediate families are affected.

There you go again, Lil, flapping over something you dont know. As an FE status rep, I bought the insurance back in the 80s. It was to protect ALPA from elected officers from putting their hands in the till. If officer stole money, the insurance paid the proven loss. Nothing to do with daily decisions, good, bad. So no comparison, but keep trying. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Brafford, King, Theuer need to just go away quietly. Perhaps even leave the airline all together. Quit stringing along their constituents with more false hopes and unobtainable promises- just step down with a "I'm sorry". The longer they keep this facade alive the more emotion and wrath they will endure from their own pilots. Brafford needs to step down now for his own good. He is finished. His lie is finished. It's over.

Lil, pay attention. Bradford and King terms end next week. They promised one term when USAPA got started. They kept their word. Theuer serves at the pleasure of the BPR. If you dont like him, have your BPRs file a resolution to remove him. That assumes you are a member in good standing which your not.

I consider it a mark of honor and distinction if that moron writes something bad about USAPA. If Holly is against it, chances are it's a very worthy effort. Besides, she has a knee-jerk, mindless need to attack anything USAir(ways.) Anyone who has sampled the tripe she puts out that supposedly passes for educated opinion (at least when USAir(ways) is involved) certainly known this.

Holly also has some hidden agendas to make LCC look bad. Her older brother was a SWA Captain. Shes been after us since SWA tried to drive us out of PHL.

If that be the case, I will gleefully watch the rest of our non-union pilot group endure the company imposed LOA 93, and worse.

If USAPA closes its doors, ALPA does NOT magically return. We are a non-union carrier for at least another year. Think what the Tempe brain trust can do to us in that time.

Nicolau award? That's part of a contract. Contract? That's history!

Your right, NYC. They dont get it. I dont know if wed be non-union for at least a year, but itd be long enough for the company to gut what little we got. With no collective bargaining agent, you have no enforceable collective bargaining agreement(s). Bringing ALPA back? What a joke. How many years would it take them to negotiate us back to even LOA93 level. BTW, any accusation that USAPA is dragging its feet on a contract, understand the company walked out, pending final end to the DFR. And with appeal, how long will that be? Parkers perfect storm.

Snoop

 

[luvn737s]

USAPA is defending a DFR. Plain and simple. Its germane no matter how you slice it. Think it means something else, go ahead sue us.
[

How is defending the whloesale disenfranchising of 1/3 of your constituency part of Representation, Contract Administration and Grievance Processing?

I think Hudson would be a good starting point. A loss in the DFR would make the case against USAPA's claim of germane fees even easier.

It may not even be an issue when the judge issues his ruling regarding damages. It just might be more piling on.

You don't think USAPA would use the bankruptcy laws to skirt their obligations do you?

Where'd they learn that trick? 😀

 

[Megasnoop]

How is defending the whloesale disenfranchising of 1/3 of your constituency part of Representation, Contract Administration and Grievance Processing?

Defending against DFRs always have been germane. Always will be. Any assessments would have to be shared by all due-paying members, east and west. Dont want to be assessed? Resign now. That might help, maybe not. I remember ALPA settling out a DFR in the 1990s. We all got hammered with an assessment to restock ALPAs contigency fund. Dont remember the details, but a some of our Reps voted against the assessment. Snoop

 

[Captain Underpants]

Prechill, I disagree. Should we prevail in court I predict the activation of the CIRP, massive sickouts via the Employee Assistance Program, and many, many resignations. This will not go down lightly when reality hits them.

Tazz,

No actually there won't be any reaction from East pilots to the court ruling either way. It just isn't important to us because it won't change or solve the seniority dispute no matter what the ruling on DFR.

East pilots realize we have for now irreconcilable differences with the West pilots regarding seniority integration. That obviously means it is not possible to work together and East pilots are fine with that. I have discussed the seniority issue with both the company President and CEO and although they would prefer a mutual agreement have no problem with keeping the pilots separate.

Common sense says if West Captains consider it unsafe for an East pilot to occupy a West cockpit jumpseat it would not be wise to expect East and West pilots to fly together especially if one or both is armed.

If you are counting on "The Judge" to fix all your problems you are going to be very disappointed. We have many mutual interests we can work together on such as a better contract for all pilots and not allowing the seniority dispute to destroy the company.

underpants