US Airways Pilots Labor Thread 4/15-4/22

[Edward]

Another week another pilots labor thread....

And another reminder to observe the rules of the board....

Please remember that this board is open to the public, and alot of what has been posted until now is not complementary either to the profession or the individual sides of this dispute..so please think before you post.

Thank you.

And already posts have been removed as they are getting out of hand. What part about not making it personal do you all not understand. Again as Richard as so well stated:
THINK BEFORE YOU POST.

 

[tazz]

Tazz,

No actually there won't be any reaction from East pilots to the court ruling either way. It just isn't important to us because it won't change or solve the seniority dispute no matter what the ruling on DFR.

East pilots realize we have for now irreconcilable differences with the West pilots regarding seniority integration. That obviously means it is not possible to work together and East pilots are fine with that. I have discussed the seniority issue with both the company President and CEO and although they would prefer a mutual agreement have no problem with keeping the pilots separate.

Common sense says if West Captains consider it unsafe for an East pilot to occupy a West cockpit jumpseat it would not be wise to expect East and West pilots to fly together especially if one or both is armed.

If you are counting on "The Judge" to fix all your problems you are going to be very disappointed. We have many mutual interests we can work together on such as a better contract for all pilots and not allowing the seniority dispute to destroy the company.

underpants

And it don't rain in Indianapolis in the summertime.........

 

[cleardirect]

If that be the case, I will gleefully watch the rest of our non-union pilot group endure the company imposed LOA 93, and worse.

If USAPA closes its doors, ALPA does NOT magically return. We are a non-union carrier for at least another year. Think what the Tempe brain trust can do to us in that time.

Nicolau award? That's part of a contract.

Contract? That's history!

I hope we can see a peaceful, orderly removal of the USAPA leadership once their lies collapse on them. It is what needs to happen for the benefit of the USAirways pilots.

Kind of jumped to a conclusion there. Also made a false assumption.

First carefully read the quote. It says the removal of usapa LEADERSHIP, not usapa total. So the association will still exist to do all the things that need to be done. Next it is always the east that continue to be afraid of ALPA. The west hardly mentions ALPA. Again you assume that the west would go running blindly back to ALPA at this point. Think again.

Better check the rules. Even IF the union were to go away, the contract remains. The contract is not dependent on having a union. Example Jet Blue. They had no union but had a contract. Pre ALPA the west had a contract and it was enforced by a pilot board. The contract remains. The T/A remains.

Kind of a strange attitude.

If that be the case, I will gleefully watch the rest of our non-union pilot group endure the company imposed LOA 93, and worse.

Like you are not part of this. Are you so angry that you would accept more damage as long as the west is hurt in the process? Maybe you just think that it would be the west damaged. Wishing ill on someone else. Sad really.

So stop spreading fear. The removal of Cleary and Mowery would be a good thing for all of us.

 

[nic4us]

Tazz,

No actually there won't be any reaction from East pilots to the court ruling either way. It just isn't important to us because it won't change or solve the seniority dispute no matter what the ruling on DFR.

East pilots realize we have for now irreconcilable differences with the West pilots regarding seniority integration. That obviously means it is not possible to work together and East pilots are fine with that. I have discussed the seniority issue with both the company President and CEO and although they would prefer a mutual agreement have no problem with keeping the pilots separate.

Common sense says if West Captains consider it unsafe for an East pilot to occupy a West cockpit jumpseat it would not be wise to expect East and West pilots to fly together especially if one or both is armed.

If you are counting on "The Judge" to fix all your problems you are going to be very disappointed. We have many mutual interests we can work together on such as a better contract for all pilots and not allowing the seniority dispute to destroy the company.

underpants

There is no seniority dipute. The seniority is already decided. There is a delay in the implementation of that seniority and I believe the DFR suit could very well resolve that issue.

The company may have no problem with keeping the groups seperated under the status quo, but as things change that may become increasingly more difficult.

I am not counting on the judge to fix all our problems, and I am prepared to be disappointed. However, if history is any indicator, I will most likely be disappointed in the response to any ruling, not the ruling itself.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Kind of jumped to a conclusion there. Also made a false assumption.

First carefully read the quote. It says the removal of usapa LEADERSHIP, not usapa total. So the association will still exist to do all the things that need to be done. Next it is always the east that continue to be afraid of ALPA. The west hardly mentions ALPA. Again you assume that the west would go running blindly back to ALPA at this point. Think again.

Better check the rules. Even IF the union were to go away, the contract remains. The contract is not dependent on having a union. Example Jet Blue. They had no union but had a contract. Pre ALPA the west had a contract and it was enforced by a pilot board. The contract remains. The T/A remains.

Kind of a strange attitude.

Like you are not part of this. Are you so angry that you would accept more damage as long as the west is hurt in the process? Maybe you just think that it would be the west damaged. Wishing ill on someone else. Sad really.

So stop spreading fear. The removal of Cleary and Mowery would be a good thing for all of us.

Actually, if the leadership is removed, who do you think will be elected into the leadership roles to fill the vacuum? Schoppaul?

And, no. Once the union goes, then there is no signatory to the contracts in place. Without two parties, i.e. the company and the pilot group, the contract goes away.

The JetBlue pilots signed individual contract with the company as a condition of their employment. I'm not sure of the content, but I believe the length was five years. That meant that the company would only have to endure any particular pilot for 5 years if they realized in retrospect that they had a loser on their hands.

The union goes away...the contracts go away.

 

[ussnark]

.... but for taking additional fuel to run the APU all the way across the pond.

That is not why they were "skooled".

Most of the east pilots flying those routes have enough experience to handle most any "errant" crew-member. I believe the "excuse" cooked up by management demonstrates the incompetence that pervades tempe and it's orcs. The "worst" pilot asked for fuel 40% of the time, hardly a big deal during winter, you know, where it snows and destinations actually get icy runways, unlike PHX or LAS. Heck, the flight plans are so bad, a friend sent me a copy of his Milan flight plan, showing an alternate of Zurich, flown at 5000 ft. and burning 3655 lbs. I figure that fuel would get a plane to the 5000 ft level of the southern face of the Alps, ....... those computers sure are clever.

This management provides crappy tools in the name of "saving money", then blow that extra money in derivatives, and you want to pick on the pilots who actually make the operation successful?

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Tazz,

No actually there won't be any reaction from East pilots to the court ruling either way. It just isn't important to us because it won't change or solve the seniority dispute no matter what the ruling on DFR.

East pilots realize we have for now irreconcilable differences with the West pilots regarding seniority integration. That obviously means it is not possible to work together and East pilots are fine with that. I have discussed the seniority issue with both the company President and CEO and although they would prefer a mutual agreement have no problem with keeping the pilots separate.

Common sense says if West Captains consider it unsafe for an East pilot to occupy a West cockpit jumpseat it would not be wise to expect East and West pilots to fly together especially if one or both is armed.

If you are counting on "The Judge" to fix all your problems you are going to be very disappointed. We have many mutual interests we can work together on such as a better contract for all pilots and not allowing the seniority dispute to destroy the company.

underpants

The only thing true in there is that the Judge isn't going to solve all the west problems. If it makes you feel better to believe the rest of that is true, more power to you.

The first sentence? :blink: Uh, do you really say that with a straight face?

 

[luvn737s]

Like you are not part of this. Are you so angry that you would accept more damage as long as the west is hurt in the process? Maybe you just think that it would be the west damaged. Wishing ill on someone else. Sad really.

Does this surprise you? Didn't the east vote to strip West pilots of their contractual rights to bypass upgrade training if they were eligible upon turning 58, but be paid as a captain anyhow? When this in no way affected any of them.

Trying to build something on the foundation of vindictiveness is doomed to failure.

 

[EastUS]

Get over the war hero thing. You never have proven him wrong. Your opinion doesn't count as real proof.

BS. (What's surprising there?) You're partially correct though = I can't claim sole credit, since a host of people actually proved it. Would you care for links to the posted material proving the issue? Your own "support" for such bogus "heroics" here speaks volumes about, well...you do the math. "Integrity", very clearly; just ain't part of your little equation out there though, other than as an absurd little slogan....although childish fantasy, quite obviously, plays a large role. Aren't you all supposedly little spartan "soldiers" in the "ARMY of Leonidas", just for starters? I guess it's easy for you to overlook completely phony "heroics".....pretty sickening though.

Whatever happens in court will happen. None can now know what that will actually be. I realize the bulk of west posters are currently, frolicking about in an orgy of venomous glee, but that's no excuse for overlooking basic deceny within larger issues.

 

[EastUS]

East pilots realize we have for now irreconcilable differences with the West pilots regarding seniority integration. That obviously means it is not possible to work together and East pilots are fine with that. I have discussed the seniority issue with both the company President and CEO and although they would prefer a mutual agreement have no problem with keeping the pilots separate.

Common sense says if West Captains consider it unsafe for an East pilot to occupy a West cockpit jumpseat it would not be wise to expect East and West pilots to fly together....

Works for me Seriously; I'd think anyone clinically insane that actually wanted to mix all the obvious venom together in cockpits...period.

 

[nic4us]

BS. (What's surprising there?) You're partially correct though = I can't claim sole credit, since a host of people actually proved it. Would you care for links to the posted material proving the issue? Your own "support" for such bogus "heroics" here speaks volumes about, well...you do the math. "Integrity", very clearly; just ain't part of your little equation out there though, other thas an absurd little slogan....although childish fantasy, very clearly, plays a large role. Aren't you all supposedly little spartan "soldiers" in the "ARMY of Leonidas"? I guess it's easy for you to overlook completely phony "heroics".....pretty sickening though.

Yes, I read all the post trying to discredit NLC and I have forgotten which ship he claimed to have been on ( Independence, Kitty Hawk?). As I recall the history of the carrier and the time frame based on an assumed age did not quite jive. I also remember there to be a point in my mind where I thought this is not adding up because there was an incorrect assumption made.

I do not consider myself a "little Spartan soldier" because I do not live in 500bc. Nor do I compare 21st century American jurisprudence with the battle of Thermopylae.

So in summation, refresh my memory to the name of the boat, and I will try to recall were your proof is in error.

 

[EastUS]

YI do not consider myself a "little Spartan soldier" because I do not live in 500bc. Nor do I compare 21st century American jurisprudence with the battle of Thermopylae.

So in summation, refresh my memory to the name of the boat, and I will try to recall were your proof is in error.

1) For what little it's worth = I hadn't figured you personally to be holding of that bizarre fantasy, spewed forth from the very "Army" of Leonidas' little propoganda machine long ago.

2) USS Kittyhawk...and rotsa' ruck with attempting any "proof" that I and others are "in error" here. The initial squirming occurred after I noted that I couldn't recall Kittyhawk even being on station during the Gulf War. It was wondered aloud just how many other historical opportunities and locations there have actually been for having "..times when hundreds of troops on the ground maybe didn't get killed because myself.." I offered the thought of Somalia, but found it "odd" that any long time AWA guy would have had any chance to be there,..and things rapidly deteriorated for NLC after that, until he'd finally, magically, self-morphed into an at the very least, a 60 plus year old, who was however, supposedly "young" when joining AWA, was supposedly produced during the very, very last part of the VietNam war, as presumably, one of the very, very youngest to even remotely be possibly qualified for USN combat ops..when, and I quote: "They were really churning out the ensign airdales"...which wasn't at all the case then, as people were sitting on their thumbs for even more than a year awaiting greatly reduced pilot slots...and..well..there's plenty more where that came from. Do the reading and I'll be happy to discuss it with you.

PS: "INTEGRITY MATTERS!!"

 

[BoeingBoy]

In other (and fewer) words, a few like minded posters egged each other on with a string of "unlikely" possibilities then congratulated each other on "proving" something.

Jim

 

[EastUS]

In other (and fewer) words, a few like minded posters egged each other on with a string of "unlikely" possibilities then congratulated each other on "proving" something.

Jim

Try impossible, and fraught with so many lies I lost count. What pathetic BS, even from you. No surprise though.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I noted that I couldn't recall Kittyhawk even being on station during the Gulf War.... It was wondered aloud just how many other historical opportunities and locations...I offered the thought of Somalia, but found it "odd" that...

Right, with "proof" such as that who needs facts...

Jim