US Airways Pilots Labor Thread 4/15-4/22

[electricjet98]

Tazz,

No actually there won't be any reaction from East pilots to the court ruling either way. It just isn't important to us because it won't change or solve the seniority dispute no matter what the ruling on DFR.

East pilots realize we have for now irreconcilable differences with the West pilots regarding seniority integration. That obviously means it is not possible to work together and East pilots are fine with that. I have discussed the seniority issue with both the company President and CEO and although they would prefer a mutual agreement have no problem with keeping the pilots separate.

Common sense says if West Captains consider it unsafe for an East pilot to occupy a West cockpit jumpseat it would not be wise to expect East and West pilots to fly together especially if one or both is armed.

If you are counting on "The Judge" to fix all your problems you are going to be very disappointed. We have many mutual interests we can work together on such as a better contract for all pilots and not allowing the seniority dispute to destroy the company.

underpants

"won't change or solve the seniority dispute"...From the Judges remarks emphasizing the need to go to court ASAP, I seriously doubt that the conclusion will be a simple slap on USAPA's hands! A likely jury decision in our favor will almost certainly lead to at least some degree of resolution. Waiving of certain restrictions in the TA regarding fleet minimums, further furloughs and downgrades by NIC only, allowance of west crews to fly east aircraft, required timeline for negotiating a new CBA before submitting to binding arbitration (you know what that is, right?) etc, etc.

"That obviously means it is not possible to work together and East pilots are fine with that."...That okay since the west may well be allowed to fly east aircraft. Actually, they would be forced to do just that since the east would have a shrinking pilot base due to furloughs, terminations due to "wildcat" pilot actions and resignations by those that "just can't stand the injustice". BTW, did you know that west checkairmen are now being trained in North Atlantic op's? Go ahead, make Doug and Scott's day by challenging them with work actions when the Judge rules!

"it would not be wise to expect East and West pilots to fly together"... That okay; won't happen until after a new CBA implemented by binding arbitration with the company.

"We have many mutual interests"...What happened to the east forcing a CBA that makes the NIC cost neutral? Are you starting to realize that after the furloughs, terminations and resignations, that the east may not enjoy the "majority rules" advantage that they now have?

 

[electricjet98]

Ummm, is it the same "minority" that, against all odds, is about to hand USAPA and the East pilots their own asses in a DFR?

And that "minority" may not be the same "minority" in a few short months!

 

[cleardirect]

Frankly Ladies and Gentlemen I don't think Management is laughing at anyone. This protracted dispute has the potential to drive US into Chapter 7 and that prospect is no laughing matter.

It is a huge Albatross around the neck for US Airways as it prevents serious merger talks and adds huge operational costs to US.

Publicly everyone is keeping up appearances but behind closed doors they're crapping their pants as it is essentially Managements fault for not getting this deal done

I agree.

That is why the fantasy of continued separate ops is just that. A fantasy. The judge or the company is not going to allow it.

 

[EastUS]

Has every sailor entered combat as a commissioned officer or as a designated Naval Aviator?
Does each Naval Aviator spend his entire career upon one and only one carrier?

When the dust settles on this conflict, we will see who is standing tall, and who has to retreat in defeat. That is what matters.

How conveniently "mysterious"....and what utter and complete BS. So: What WAS the supposedly involved carrier? Given the full complement of an air wing on such beasts = That's scarcely too personal a question...and; Why all the entirely incorrect BS about how "They were really churning out the ensign airdales" if the current claim's now just one of: "Has every sailor entered combat as a commissioned officer or as a designated Naval Aviator?" You've represented yourself as a combat theater USN Aviator who, on mutltiple occasions, experienced conditions wherein :"there were times when hundreds of troops on the ground maybe didn't get killed because myself.." performed duties so well, in your nebulous, and I quote "gray jet"..from an evermore, equally nebulous carrier..although stating duty time on Kittyhawk was apparently no problem...So; What's the latest "story"? Quoting from your earlier excursions into the hostile skies over Fantasyland: "Some people just cant get their bombs on target."

Sickening...just plain sickening.

 

[EastUS]

Judging by the actions of the majority of easties I would wager he's not a man of his word.

Really tazzie? Just how much would you actually care to wager? Outside of my not agreeing with your Nic obsession/"It's ALL about MEEE!!"/etc..what's your suggested metric for evaluation?

If you've any honest and amusing wager that you've the spine to actually back up = PM with the details

 

[EastUS]

What I do know is that if you are correct and NLC feigned his experience, it is in no way is a reflection on the West group as a whole.

We differ, in that that individual's evidently the standard/signature bearer for "INTEGRITY MATTERS" hereabouts. The irony can't be completely lost on you there.....

 

[EastUS]

That is why the fantasy of continued separate ops is just that. A fantasy. The judge or the company is not going to allow it.

Huge assumptions on both parts. We'll know only when/if it happens.

 

[electricjet98]

Publicly everyone is keeping up appearances but behind closed doors they're crapping their pants as it is essentially Managements fault for not getting this deal done

Not asking you to reveal privallaged information, but do you have certain evidence of that rather than just a shared/common belief?

 

[luvn737s]

Publicly everyone is keeping up appearances but behind closed doors they're crapping their pants as it is essentially Managements fault for not getting this deal done

Who do you think wants to be the one responsible for driving the costs at US even higher by offering sufficient money to pay the east's ransom? There may be a combined list, but it will be attached to a very different contract than either side has ever lived under. The company has no product for which it can charge a sufficient premium to offset even higher costs and compete against the lower costs of WN and DL.

WN has enjoyed a juggernaut for 2 decades. We have never seen them cornered and really fight for their lives. I have no doubt they can do it.

 

[Richard]

Folks,

A word of caution--some of the posts are getting a little too personal, and if the trend continues posts will be deleted WITHOUT comment or notification.

Remember to discuss the topics at hand, and NOT the individual posters. Any derogatory remarks made about other posters will result in the entire post being deleted, and suspension for the offending poster.

KEEP IT CIVIL.

 

[EastUS]

.....A likely jury decision in our favor will almost certainly lead to at least some degree of resolution. Waiving of certain restrictions in the TA regarding fleet minimums, further furloughs and downgrades by NIC only, allowance of west crews to fly east aircraft,


...That okay since the west may well be allowed to fly east aircraft. Actually, they would be forced to do just that since the east would have a shrinking pilot base due to furloughs,....

Sigh!..and here it was long the west's claimed "innocence", in that you all just wanted "what was brought to the merger. It's so very heartwarming to see the true nature of the west's "Righteous Position" once again

"INTEGRITY MATTERS"

 

[prechilill]

---We interrupt this tirade by our most prolific poster for this important new bulletin---

This just in from the bureau of labor statistics- North Carolina has their highest unemployment rate ever. It is now fifth highest among states in unemployment- 10.5%.

Wachovia, once the crown jewel of the banking renaissance and headquartered in Charlotte, NC, collapsed in a heap of toxic loans brought on by the epic housing bust this past year.
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/laus.nr0.htm

This also just in from Market Watch:

Air passenger revenue is down 23% yoy
http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Story/Stor...p;siteid=yhoof2

What does this mean? USAirways is hurting. Either they merge or they die- period. The crushing debt load from the highly leveraged buyout of USAirways isn't going away. The inherited high cost structure from the east has crushed any chance of Parker competing on his old home turf, as evident by his cutting and running from Las Vegas and significant scaling back of flights in Phoenix. All that is left for Parker is to merge or go bankrupt.

So, in two weeks, I opine that any seniority integration issue will have to be addressed by the court which will have the least financial impact on the company, as Wake has already intimated in he will consider in pretrial court papers. Obviously, leaving both pilot groups separate imposes a significant financial burden on the company and won't be an option for remedy. Separate operations will also make USAirways less attractive for a merger. What this means is all remedies from the court case are leading to the establishment of a combined pilot list with Nicolau seniority. This at least resolves the financial burden to the company and allows Parker to move forward with another merger, which he has repeatedly stated is in the best interest of USAirways and the industry as a whole.

A merger will bring about a few things. One is increased liquidity. ANother is excess employees, probably as much as 1,500 pilots in the flight department. Based on Nicolau, this would mean about 1,100 of those extra jobs are sitting out east.

With the upcoming trial, the collapse of our business environment at home and global economic uncertainty, times will be interesting indeed. Best of luck to all.

 

[electricjet98]

Sigh!..and here it was long the west's claimed "innocence", in that you all just wanted "what was brought to the merger. It's so very heartwarming to see the true nature of the west's "Righteous Position" once again

"INTEGRITY MATTERS"

Simply the end result of the games instituted by your heroes at USAPA. BTW, would you happen to be planning membership in one of the clubs mentioned previously, the latter perhaps?

""That obviously means it is not possible to work together and East pilots are fine with that."...That okay since the west may well be allowed to fly east aircraft. Actually, they would be forced to do just that since the east would have a shrinking pilot base due to furloughs, terminations due to "wildcat" pilot actions and resignations by those that "just can't stand the injustice".

 

[N905TW]

Sigh!..and here it was long the west's claimed "innocence", in that you all just wanted "what was brought to the merger. It's so very heartwarming to see the true nature of the west's "Righteous Position" once again

"INTEGRITY MATTERS"

Remember that what the West group "brought to the merger" not only involves the pre-merger West fleet, but also includes an equal share of the aircraft aquired POST MERGER.

The West Captain and F/O jobs on the 25 E190s and the 3 ATA 757s continue to be hoarded by the East. Absent that, there may well have been no West furloughs. No telling what the judge may say about this if indeed the verdict for USAPA is "guilty".

 

[ableoneable]

Frankly Ladies and Gentlemen I don't think Management is laughing at anyone. This protracted dispute has the potential to drive US into Chapter 7 and that prospect is no laughing matter.

It is a huge Albatross around the neck for US Airways as it prevents serious merger talks and adds huge operational costs to US.

Publicly everyone is keeping up appearances but behind closed doors they're crapping their pants as it is essentially Managements fault for not getting this deal done

Though I agree there is the potential for USAirways to file chapter 7 I don't think that the protracted labor dispute is having a negative effect.

ALPA and the company were close enough to an agreement, that had it been pursued, it would have been consummated prior to the economic meltdown. That was a different world with different pay possibilities. The labor strife has saved the company quite a bit.

The current separate operations also has no impact on further mergers. I did not notice a push from management for a single working agreement during the attempted Delta acquisition.

I doubt very much that the current split operations would slow down any merger discussions or operations should it come to that. According to the company most of the merger synergies have been realized. The 2% to 4% left on the table is more than made up for by continuing to pay the east a bankruptcy pay package and the west by a 2004 agreement.

Were I Tilton, or whomever, separate ops would look to me as more of an opportunity than a hinderance. A whipsaw is one of management's most useful tools and here management has one nicely gift wrapped. Should they be able to add a third group to the mix the opportunities to play all sides off of each other will not double but square.