US AFA topic-ALL AFA issues go here

[2fly4u]

LMAO. Yeah, I don't know about the rest of you , but I certainly feel secure about these people negotiating my future. (NOT!) The people on the West should step aside. They have stepped across a line and as far as I am concerned, the dye has been cast on this one. I don't see this ending well for either side. I thought the 2 groups had decided to do what was best for all involved? I am not impressed with the response of AFA on this one. And by the way, when and if I ever hear of one of the major carriers comptemplating the possiblity of buying USA/West-division I will happily submit this info to their
flight attendants so that this bunch can get the justifiable beat-down they so obviously deserve. When people show you who they are , believe them. This bunch, cannot be trusted. Yeah, I said it. And the info I got from AFA goes in a personal file.

 

[2fly4u]

I just became your biggest fan. We on the East appear to be acting in good faith. The actions of these West and the response of Pat Friend are all unacceptable.

 

[2fly4u]

Travel pro:

I am so your biggest fan right now. Where else but here would this sort of behavior be deemed
acceptable? I think we all deserve better than this.








Travel

What's good for the flight attendant group? Well for starters getting rid of those yahoo crackers in office out west would be a start. No officer was accused of being a drunk but a few sure WERE accused of being thieves and liars.
[/quo trul

 

[beachboy]

Who are you going to write? International? Now BOS LEC runs to thier defense saying this was avoidable on her eline to BOS flight attendants! This whole situation is something out of a Steven King movie.

 

[missthe727]

Who are you going to write? International? Now BOS LEC runs to thier defense saying this was avoidable on her eline to BOS flight attendants! This whole situation is something out of a Steven King movie.

Well, Lynn hates Mike so it's not surprising.

 

[sharonstoneseat]

I am not backpedaling, although yes, I was being slightly tongue in cheek, nor am I using "tactics" from the "west office." And no, coloring a threat a "friendly warning" will not work. I did, with my post, use the very same tactics I observe here on this, very exciting, forum. It really is a very entertaining forum. So, just because your opinion as a west person completely differs from mine, is no reason to call anyone who might, in the future, actually put a little effort into that understaffed office irrational. You know why? Because its about working for your fellow FAs! I agree with you on one thing, there should never have been "personal stuff" but there was, just like there was and is in every political office, east and west, even the POTUS office has "personal stuff." Why would I call you on attendance of LEC meetings? Thats a good thing. Are you flipping kidding me? I applaud you on that. You know why? Because so few people even put that tiny effort into getting facts and being involved.

Travelpro: Are you offering to step in for those "yahoo crackers"?

There was no threat it WAS a friendly suggestion. That is and always has been the problem at the PHX LEC office under the LeCarre administration. Every discussion becomes personal, defensive and off the scale emotional especially when you are discussing how things are in the rest of the airline world. The consequence of that is poor decisions are made and it continues to escalate.

Sadly, the members have come to accept the every increasing bad behavior as acceptable. They deserve better than this during a very complicated time.

One of the hallmarks of good business sense and adult thinking is the ability to endure the discomfort that comes with admitting that you made a mistake rather than contnue down a bad road. It may be difficult for those who voted or supported Lisa and company to admit that they are the wrong people for the job, but yes, this incident illustrates that our officers do have the mindset and leadership qualities of Dick Cheney and that they are not fit for what they were elected to do.

They have lost their credibilty and effectiveness with Management, the JNT and the flight attendants both East and West. Only their inner circle want to work in an office where we have discussions about stealing, pushing, shoving and a handgun. I can respect your personal loyalty to them, but you need to ask yourself what is best for the members and the reputation of AFA66.

Many of us believe that if they could think beyond their obvious arrogance that they would resign. It will take less time to elect new officers and get them up to speed than for any of them to actually have unecumbered communication with those that they need to communicate with.

I see that whoever wrote the announcnement for the AFA66 website threw Jeff alone under the bus. Do you see what I mean? It will only continue.

 

[Travelpro72]

It absolutely amazes me how differently people can think. HOW anyone can justify what those morons did is lightyears beyond me. Even more frightening is their being found guilty by AFA Int'l and not receiving even a slap on the wrist. What does THAT say to you? It sure shows me what AFA Int'l thinks of their US membership. There is no way in hell I'll be convinced that the joint negotiations will fair well now. How can they? Will Mike now have to sit in the room on his briefcase with his wallet in his front pocket clutching everything he owns as they pass by? I sure hope you people out west band together and get them out. You'd all be better suited with MONKEYS in place of them throwing bananna peels and grinning into a phone. Recall them and don't delay. Oh and to those in AFA Int'l reading this.....(here's a middle finger to you). You all should be ashamed of yourselves. :down:

 

[SSDA]

Oh yes, I'm sure all the other offices and administrations were and are just soooooooo perfect, beyond reproach. Thank you so much for opening my eyes, I mean all this time, I've just been nothing but a loyal puppy. Nowhere in my past posts have I mentioned anything about thinking about the rest of the FAs.

 

[flybynite]

I swear, I don't think I've ever seen such an example of "Stinking Thinking" as this bunch in office out West.

You would have to be loaded to come out with a statement that "I did it because if the east had the chance they would have done it too." (or close enough)

It's like the Nimrod in PHX wants to blame the East for HER DISHONESTY and HER lack of INTEGRITY!!!

SSDA...someone needs to douse you with a cold bucket of water. Wake up and smell the coffee.

Throw the Bums out.

 

[hp_fa]

I am not even attempting to defend the actions that are alleged but want to make two points.

First, the Hearing Board stated that they wished the problem had been resolved before, and perhaps outside of, the Hearing. To me this is directed at Flores, who seemed intent on taking what may have been a political effort to remove LeCarre and Alpers. It isn't a secret that he doesn't seem to like then and he may well have been attempting to have the outsiders, in the form of the Hearing Board, solve his issues with them.

Second, Alpers admitted to having lied to Flores when first approached by him. So why would he have admitted a lie and then turned around and lied to the Hearing Board about having found the papers on the desk rather than in the briefcase? That doesn't make sense and it makes me wonder whether the Hearing Board correctly found that the papers were in the briefcase rather than on the table as Alpers stated to the Hearing Board.

 

[flybynite]

Why of course they would have liked it to have been resolved before it came to a Hearing. That's airing dirty laundry in the middle of negotiations. Nasty.

But because we are in negotiations this is a serious breach of trust between the two parties and needed to be addressed. Now. Not later.

The West MEC still has not issued an apology and has shown no remorse for her actions. Which leads me to believe she is a snake in the grass and I don't want her to be a party to the JNC. Hopefully the west f/a's will bounce her lying, thieving rear end out of office.

 

[FlyGuyBWI]

An observation ....

It has always been my understanding that AFA Hearing Board matters were confidential, and that charges and decisions were only the concerns of those involved (and their respective Council members). Without making comment on the charges discussed in this thread, or the decision that is now published to the general public, I submit that by "airing our dirty laundry" on a public message board (or in e-mail newsletters that can be accessed by the general public), other AFA members could well be found guilty of violating Sec. X.1.j of the C&BL. It's just not good form to display your internal discord during negotiations -- especially when your only real bargaining chip is "solidarity" .... yeah, the company is REALLY going to believe that one, if push comes to shove. GREAT JOB! --East & West (insert sarcasim here). All of you on both the East and West MEC's need to reconsider the jobs you were elected to do, and then DO THEM. If you have disagreements, deal with them OFFLINE.


Just my 2 cents ....

 

[SSDA]

With regards to the bucket of water, I will respectfully disagree. And decline. I am allowed my opinion, especially on this forum. As you are yours. Interesting point you bring up HP_FA, but be careful, members on this forum already sharpened their pitchforks :jerry:

 

[cactusflyer]

Actually HP_FA has been posting on this forum for a very long time and his view points are usually respected because he doesn't post in an inflammatory fashion.

Bottom line is, those clowns have no integrity. Many of us, judging by the number of signatures, have come to realize we don't want to be represented by people who have no ability to behave like leaders. If they weren't representing us, or negotiating for us then they might be able to get away with the way they are behaving. BUT, when you are elected to a position of power you can't just go around acting the way they do. With leadership comes power and that power means you don't go around yelling at people, stealing, or lying.

 

[HP2USFA]

What I also find interesting is that NOTHING in this transcript is proven as FACT with the exception of personal admissions of guilt.

The entire rest of the document boils down to nothing more than he said she said. No substantial proof about what happened either way. Nothing proves they DID and nothing proves they DID NOT other than their admissions of actions.

And yet despite that, we're drawing lines in the sand and spouting insults and going all Jerry Springer over the evolution of this drama queen fest that the Hearing board obviously saw for what it was and rightfully told everyone to grow the frick up and deal with it on their own.

If there was a video tape of Jeff taking the document out of Mike's briefcase that'd be a whole different matter. But there wasn't. Doreen's charges... no proof. That the file was actually in Mike's bag... no proof. That it wasn't... no proof.

But anyone sitting here and making a battlecry based on the personal opinions of the individuals in this bad Greek Tragedy should really take a moment and step back and look at the fact that we're all fighting over the fact that a piece of paper was copied and the act of copying it was lied about. Once. Lying bad? Yes. But if you all seriously want to try and tell me you've never in your life told a lie, you'll excuse me when I don't put you immediately out when you spontaneously combust.

I mean how many times have we said 'yes that dress/haircut/outfit makes you look good' when it sure as hell did not.

Piece of paper. One bad decision. Nothing else proven as fact.

Do we still need pistols at dawn?

Final thought. You and I work together. I'm with the East Coast division, you with the West. We share the same office from time to time. You make a copy of a key to the office mailbox (that I previously declared was not authorized for copying) taken from the office lock box. Some busybody in the office you don't get along with comes to me and says that you stole the key off my chain and copied it. I ask you if you've stolen the key off my chain and copy it. You say no (which is technically true since you didn't take it off my chain). I file charges with international saying you've stolen the key from my keychain and copied it. We go to before the board and you tell your side (cause you needed the key to check the mail on days I wasn't there) and I say that the only way you could have copied that key was to take if off my keychain without my permission and use the busybody as a witness (who wasn't there at the time of the copy). The busybody then takes that opportunity to add her own beef to the mix. Neither of us have proof of what actually happened. The board puts both of our testimonies into their decision and tells us to deal with the situation between ourselves. They sanction you for stealing the key because I say that I always keep it on my keychain.

Is the ludicrousness of this starting to sink in?

And then our customers get a hold of this letter and call for you to be fired cause you're a liar and a thief... drama ensues. I further throw fuel on the fire by calling you a liar and a thief to my customers on the East. They also want you fired. More drama ensues...

Substitute key for USAPA pilot scheduling proposal and we have a duplicate situation.

I do not post the above to make light of the situation as a whole but to offer an opportunity to see the actual situation from a different perspective. See it for what it truly is, a gigantic overblown mountain over a molehill. I'm more disturbed by our collective reactions to here say than anything.