United Pilots Say US Airways deal potential deal "extremely negative"

[USA320Pilot]

Let's put things into perspective. In Q1 United lost $537 million or about $6 million per day.

Bloomberg News recently reported Credit Suisse analyst Daniel McKenzie in New York told investors in a report "UAL's standalone plan is not viable," and he projected drop in the Chicago-based carrier's cash to $1.3 billion by the end of 2009.

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If true United is in deep trouble. Moreover, a United pilot told a colleague of mine if the US Airways (or Continental) merger does not proceed United will begin selling assets to fund operations.

If true I suspect the UAL ALPA MEC will change its tune about a US Airways merger. Furthermore, I now believe the US Airways-United merger could be announced around May 9 with US Airways the surviving "business enterprise".

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[luvn737s]

Air Travel Consumer Report April 2007
Key On-Time Performance and Flight Cancellation Statistics
Based on Data Filed with the Bureau of Transportation Statistics by the 20 Reporting Carrier

Most Frequently Delayed Flights
1. US Airways flight 1543 from Boston to Charlotte, NC – late 100 percent of the time

2. Comair flight 5463 from New York JFK to Buffalo, NY – late 96.67 percent of the time

3. SkyWest Airlines flight 2570 from Columbus, OH to Milwaukee – late 96.15 percent of the time

4. US Airways flight 1582 from Charlotte, NC to Newark, NJ – late 95.83 percent of the time

5. Comair flight 5625 from New York JFK to Jacksonville, FL – late 93.75 percent of the time

source
http://www.bts.gov/press_releases/2007/dot.../dot055_07.html

So it appears the profoundly more experienced east-coast operation has been able to hone the art of getting a flight out late better than any other major airline.

That 1543 sounds like a stubborn one! I wonder if it ever ran late before the merger?

 

[gaucho99]

Where are you getting this stuff. Do you actually read the financial data? Or do you just regurgitate something you heard in a crew room?

Let's try this again...


How is a negative cash flow of $167 Million at US without any debt repayment better than UA's $80 Million negative cash flow with $250 Million debt repayment or positive cash flow of $170 Million without the debt repayment???

You do the math. But if it is a race to the bottom, since US is burning more cash and has less cash on hand, guess who ends up in BK first? Need a clue?

So tell me again about LCC's "industry leading" balance sheet again, please.

Your figures above are misleading. I find it amazing you can actualy defend one of the worst performing quarters by any airline in aviation history. The quote below is from a post on the United board:


UA suffered an operating loss of $441 million and a negative cash flow from operations of $80 million. The total net loss was $537 million.

The $250 million distribution to shareholders didn't affect these numbers at all. Distributions like those don't impact profit or loss.

The numbers don't confirm that UA's performance was "in line" with other carriers. It was far worse.

 

[luvn737s]

If true United is in deep trouble. Moreover, a United pilot told a colleague of mine if the US Airways (or Continental) merger does not proceed United will begin selling assets to fund operations.

Well if a United pilot said it..... Oh, wait a minute if US and UAL merge, what's first on the agenda?: sale of assets! Why? To fund the operation (at least for a little while, but the downward momentum of UAL could easily swamp US).

If true I suspect the UAL ALPA MEC will change its tune about a US Airways merger. Furthermore, I now believe the US Airways-United merger could be announced around May 9 with US Airways the surviving "business enterprise".

Now we're back to your favorite subject.

 

[USstew23]

So it appears the profoundly more experienced east-coast operation has been able to hone the art of getting a flight out late better than any other major airline.

That 1543 sounds like a stubborn one! I wonder if it ever ran late before the merger?

Yes and everyone of those flights are operating in some of the most congested airspace in the nation. Damn that overpopulated East coast with all of those high yielding flights.

 

[USstew23]

If true I suspect the UAL ALPA MEC will change its tune about a US Airways merger. Furthermore, I now believe the US Airways-United merger could be announced around May 9 with US Airways the surviving "business enterprise".

Regards,

USA320Pilot

What exactly does "surviving business enterprise" mean? Hopefully not keeping the name, the management, and the HQ in Tempe?!?! This place is such a mess now. I know some of the AWA people like to say that US was trash before but I'm sorry you're wrong. Yes after 2 BK's and the airline being stripped of everything including the paint on the planes it was a mess, but prior to that US had it together and we did it with class and pride, mostly because we had the tools to do our job and were treated as ADULT PROFESSIONALS. When I called payroll, Employee Travel, Inflight, Res, etc... I ALWAYS had someone (with experience no less) pickup the phone and resolve whatever issue was at hand, no matter what and this was when we had close to 60,000 employees. Present day is a complete 180... generally it's always leaving a voice mail to somewhere in Tempe and you either 1. NEVER hear back or 2. get a return call from someone that is either completely unprofessional and argues due to their incompotence or is as nice as they can be but have only been in the position for 2 days and can't help. Calling the pass bureau?? Forget it, everytime I've had to call it's always some recorded message to call back or send an email and I tried that only to hear back 2 weeks after the fact. It's a mess now and they either need to get with it and fix it or merge it and find some true airline airline people to run it.

 

[sharktooth]

Piney, I have said all along if we can get East Revs with West productivity we have a winner. I am not bashing the East customer (except you) or the East Revenue, just the attitide of a good portion of the company. I also realise almost all of it has to do with things that happened long before AWA and Tempe, but you and your friends seem to have forgotten that point!

Not certain that you know what productivity is or what it means.

If one is talking about financial productivity, as reflected in the highest yields, then, from a financial point of view, the east is certainly more productive over the west. I wonder what "productivity" you are talking about.

What is certain is that "Tempe's" way of doing things may look great on paper and even allow for a slight "profit" in a low-yield environment like the southwest, but it obviously, to the typical east employee and customer, severely cripples the carrier compared to the way the last last set of managers did it. Yes, there were a few problems before AWA and Tempe but I would have to say that those problems have been exacerbated into some sort of alternate reality as well as new ones being introduced (QIK) for which the only act keeping this enterprise afloat has been extensive employee and customer concessions resulting in grossly substandard compensation and the inevitable complaints.

Hat tip to Parker and his boys for getting most of the employee group to think they are not worth very much. <_<

Most everyone here has had a problem with PB, but, I will say, he has been a consistent advocate for the enterprise, especially the employees. Perhaps were you to listen instead of "talk", you might learn something useful. Just saying.

As PB once said, and I paraphrase, as long as you (management) address(s) complaints you will do fine. It is when the complaints stop that you should worry. Sorry if I mangled it, Piney but I hope I got the general idea.

 

[WCT]

Please fix this Merger first. Thing will only get worse. You think the pilots are fighting now for FAIR seniority?! ALPA will be the only Union involved, and will protect UA.
Keep US Airways MY US Airways! Stand alone, or face bigger problems later, sorry.

 

[WCT]

Yeah imagine 75% or so of the population that resides east of the Mississippi. News Flash the world does NOT revolve around Arizona.

As for the alledged numbers regarding productivity all I would ask is for UPNAWAY to produce the documentation or gently fade into the Aircraft like the duct tape on the overheads.

I agree fully. Sad affairs US Airways has to revolve around the SandCastle, but a true reality. And I don't think a merger would change things to much in PHX, besides HQ. WN being the ONLY dominating carrier out of the PHX hub?? Don't think so, UA bid for AWA back in 98. LAS maybe be in trouble. No one realizes the true economic impact in PHX alone. The same holds true for CLT.

 

[galley princess]

This "proposed merger" has so many problems, but if it gets past being "proposed" LOOK OUT. Our favorite senators and congress people haven't even woken up yet. I highly doubt any of them will tolerate the inevitable "right sizing" that will reverberate through their constituencies.

I just don't understand why any of us would want this. Put aside reputations and whose service/ people etc are the best. Parker etal have. It really doesn't matter what he has done to US, it's done. These guys are after one thing: their payday. They put together a deal, install the platinum parachutes and voila, waltz into the sunset leaving the rest of us with the mess.

The only thing that would be good in this deal is the escort of Tilton and Parker off into the sunset. I doubt that any reversal of fortune could be done a la Continental with a UA-US merger, but it could be done if US stays alone.

Looking coldly at the business side of this in 2002 it would have been better for the industry as a whole if US had gone out of business. Our cancer of divesting pensions, slashing pay rates and gutting contracts spread through the industry to the weakest players. Now that it is 2008, frankly we'd all be better off if United was allowed to sink/ sell off assets and pick them up that way. Parker shouldn't be riding to the rescue, he should be getting out of the way.

This is no reflection on UA employees. Just like us they took their chances with an airline they thought would go longterm. US employees, East and West didn't get the outcome they signed up for. I think that everyone in this industry realizes that we all just played roulette and it's still spinning.

 

[767jetz]

Your figures above are misleading. I find it amazing you can actualy defend one of the worst performing quarters by any airline in aviation history. The quote below is from a post on the United board:


UA suffered an operating loss of $441 million and a negative cash flow from operations of $80 million. The total net loss was $537 million.

The $250 million distribution to shareholders didn't affect these numbers at all. Distributions like those don't impact profit or loss.

The numbers don't confirm that UA's performance was "in line" with other carriers. It was far worse.

Actually you are wrong about one important thing. The $250 Million distribution is not the same as the $250 Million debt repayment.

The distribution was a one time dividend that lined the pockets of the biggest share holders, which (no surprise) includes Tilton. And that did not impact the stated loss.

However, the $250 Million debt repayment did affect the cash flow, turning what would have been a positive cash flow of $170 Million, into a negative cash flow of $80 Million.

So once again I will point out to the really stubborn folks here, a negative cash flow of $80 Million is less than half of USAirways' negative cash flow of $167 Million for the quarter. If you take away the debt repayment the difference is even greater.

Additionally, if you compare apples to apples and subtract the debt repayment that UA made and US didn't, then you can also compare USAirways net loss of $239 Million to UA's net loss of $287 Million. Not a huge difference when you consider the size of each airline, the amount of fuel each burns (UA being far more), and especially the negative cash flow. I said this all through bankruptcy while the same pundits were speculating UA's demise... that the most important indicator to watch if cash flow. Thats why commentary like this are so far fetched:

If true United is in deep trouble. Moreover, a United pilot told a colleague of mine if the US Airways (or Continental) merger does not proceed United will begin selling assets to fund operations.

If true I suspect the UAL ALPA MEC will change its tune about a US Airways merger. Furthermore, I now believe the US Airways-United merger could be announced around May 9 with US Airways the surviving "business enterprise".

At least the poster prefaced both statements with the words, "If true" to insulate himself from being called wrong. But therein lies the caveat... It is not entirely accurate. So the sentiment of UA selling off assets and US Airways being the "surviving entity" is a long time fantasy of some. Those things didn't even happen in UA's darkest days in bankruptcy. I assure you it won't happen now with $3.65 Billion dollars and another $3 Billion in unencumbered assets to borrow against. Assets are not sold when capital markets are available to finance the operation. As we approach the high season when airlines historically make the most money, all airlines fortunes improve. So to take Q1 and extrapolate the next 7 quarters, and then say "United will be down to $1.3 Billion (in almoat 2 years) by the end of 2009 is irresponsible and far fetched. In this industry, is there anyone who really believes they know what will happen 2 years from now? Ridiculous.

 

[Fly]

If true United is in deep trouble. Moreover, a United pilot told a colleague of mine if the US Airways (or Continental) merger does not proceed United will begin selling assets to fund operations.

Well if a pilot told you, it MUST be the truth. Management always tells the pilots individually first, then acts.

If true I suspect the UAL ALPA MEC will change its tune about a US Airways merger. Furthermore, I now believe the US Airways-United merger could be announced around May 9 with US Airways the surviving "business enterprise".

Regards,

USA320Pilot

Which means that AWA is the surviving entity considering that they are the ones that bought US Airways.

Can't wait to see you pulling gear for everyone. That Nic award is BINDING, regardless of the 'surviving business enterprise'.

 

[WhatBag?]

. So the sentiment of UA selling off assets and US Airways being the "surviving entity" is a long time fantasy of some.

Herein lies the issue that many of us have with you, 767jetz. You take the notion that SOME means all 35,000 employees of US Airways! Besides your dislike for a certain captain and a few others, what exactly IS your beef with US Airways? You lurk our boards constantly and feed off of a few of our unhappy campers to spew absolute venom on our board. I would have to say that 90% of US Airways employees are not attempting to see US conquer the world and would just like to see the company we know as US Airways survive and prosper. Yes, we have our great many issues, but to come on our boards and make statements like us being an abortion (or even on YOUR boards) is rude, uncalled for and should land you in the cornfield.

I can honestly say that the reason in the past that I wanted you guys to buy US Airways was because of your global reach AND because UAL was innovative. Well, UAL is NOT innovative and is now nothing more than another US airline that hasn't a clue how to run an airline or treat their employees. You THINK your airline is better because you are bigger but all UAL IS is a big sh*tty airline with no aspirations. No longer does this horrible, world conquering US Airways employee view UAL with an ounce of respect, admiration, or envy. Hell, even your name ranks up there with ours as one that sucks.

The sooner this merger is squashed, the better. The sooner it's squashed, the sooner you will scurry back over to your miserable UAUA airline board.

Now go sign me into my room, love! My pumps are killing me and I need to soak my feet in the ice bucket!

 

[WhatBag?]

Can't wait to see you pulling gear for everyone. That Nic award is BINDING, regardless of the 'surviving business enterprise'.

You rank with 767jetz where my post 65 is concerned and I believe YOU were the first to label US an abortion. Now go back to economy, love!

 

[Fly]

Now go back to economy, love!

I would, but I WOP'd the month. You'll have to junior someone else into the 'village' this time.



~ Jetz, they seem agitated with us. Wonder why :jerry: