United Pilots Say US Airways deal potential deal "extremely negative"

[PA18]

If Piedmont had been in the driver's seat, the Bill Howard/ Gordon Bethune management team would have kicked a**!

Colodny and Seth "Deer-in-the-Headlights" Schofield? Well, we all know how well that went.

Piedmont was a nice little mom and pop airline that served its part of the country well. It had been a national airline (one rung below major airline) only two years before the USAir merger was announced.

As nice a little company as it was, it would not have survived on its own. Somebody would have swallowed it up, and there were worse possibilities than USAir out there at the time (Icahn, Lorenzo, and AMR, to name a few).

The former Piedmont employees look back on it nostalgically because most everybody got hired young, and rocketed up the seniority lists, as there were classes of new hires every week. The trips were so good that usually it was the most junior captains (many former Braniff) that took the chief pilot jobs, as a means of getting holidays and weekends off. Unlike today, most pilots would rather go out and fly than sit in an office.

Many feel as if that feel-good growth would have gone on forever if USAir hadn't intervened.

I would expect, however, that most people realize that it simply was not possible.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Piedmont was a nice little mom and pop airline that served its part of the country well. It had been a national airline (one rung below major airline) only two years before the USAir merger was announced.

As nice a little company as it was, it would not have survived on its own. Somebody would have swallowed it up, and there were worse possibilities than USAir out there at the time (Icahn, Lorenzo, and AMR, to name a few).

The former Piedmont employees look back on it nostalgically because most everybody got hired young, and rocketed up the seniority lists, as there were classes of new hires every week. The trips were so good that usually it was the most junior captains (many former Braniff) that took the chief pilot jobs, as a means of getting holidays and weekends off. Unlike today, most pilots would rather go out and fly than sit in an office.

Many feel as if that feel-good growth would have gone on forever if USAir hadn't intervened.

I would expect, however, that most people realize that it simply was not possible.

I disagree with much of what you say here. USAir came after Piedmont not because they really wanted to merge with Piedmont, but because Carl Icahn was licking his chops at the thought of buying USAir to merge it with TWA. Colodny wanted no part of his beloved USAir getting eaten by a corporate raider, so he made it his business to make USAir too big to be gobbled up by Icahn.

Piedmont was a national carrier a few years before the merger, but between the time the merger was announced and the actual combining of operations, Piedmont actually grew to be slightly larger than USAir (due to aircraft deliveries already confirmed.)

While it is impossible to know whether the growth at Piedmont would have gone on forever or not, let's look at the airline in 1989 just before the combined operations. As I said previously, Piedmont by then was slightly larger than USAir and run by a cantankerous, but highly effective, CEO named Bill Howard (he was our own Bob Crandall, except it is rumored that Howard actually did have a heart and was warm-blooded.) In the wings being groomed for Howard's impending retirement was Gordon Bethune. Now, you take a very healthy airline like Piedmont which was growing PROFITABLY by leaps and bounds with a sprouting transatlantic service (and was voted Airline of the Year by a survey on which Piedmont didn't even appear on the ballot) and put Gordon Bethune in charge can you actually NOT see where that likely would have gone?

Look what Bethune did with the basket case that Continental was. Given a healthy airline like Piedmont to start with, Bethune would have conquered the world (kind of like what Continental accomplished under his leadership.)

I suspect that Piedmont would have needed a name change to fit a global role, but it would have survived as a stand alone carrier to this day without a doubt had the chairman of Norfolk-Western not been hospitalized and isolated due to a serious heart condition when Colodny attacked.

 

[Poug Darker]

Well said and spot on. In laymens terms, If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. One interesting point though about UA ALPA. Their statement never said they would do whatever it takes to stop this merger proposal. It just said they have serious concerns and urged management to explore other alternatives. The issues ALPA referred to are very serious and will be major hurdles. Insurmountable? No! Tough? Absolutely!

The key word here is of course 'alpa'. Whether you are a girlfriend/boyfriend or a national union, it hurts to get dumped. Oh, breakups are so very hard to do and when they are over, the jilted one is usually quite unfriendly towards the '-ex'. That being said, in official alpa hurumppf-speech 'serious' and 'major hurdles' usually means "wave a big bag of cash under our nose and see how our attitude changes" (ala the deltoids).
Cheers.

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

Back in 1984 I flew for a commuter that UA worked in DCA. While on a two hour sit one day, I started talking to a UA 727 F/O. He looked like Columbo, in his great tan uniform, with bags under his eyes. I asked him how it was to work for UA, and he said "Stay away from this place. Nobody likes each other here and I've been stuck at the panel, then right seat for X (I think it was around 17)years. Go to work for Delta, Piedmont or USAir."

From the outside looking in I cannot remember a time when the UA pilots seemed happy. Last year I had a UA A320 Capt on the jumpseat from PHX-SAN, and he &^%^ed more in an hour and a half than 10 US pilots could in a day.

I do agree with you that a US/UA merger would be a disaster. We just disagree on the reasons.

Oh, come on, Pi. You know full well that pilots - no matter what the name of their employer is - never feel right unless they're complaining about their job. Its human nature. And remember, pilots are people too!! (except nostradamus. nobody's quite sure exactly what he/she/it is).

As proof, when was the last time you had any pilot tell you how good his life was? What a great schedule he was getting? How he was thrilled at his hourly pay?

But don't worry, when UAUA/LCC merge, we will surely continue the tradition. And just think how much ammo the eastyz will have when we toss the usapian nobility (and all that DOH crap) out on its collective arse!!!

 

[Pi brat]

Oh, come on, Pi. You know full well that pilots - no matter what the name of their employer is - never feel right unless they're complaining about their job. Its human nature. And remember, pilots are people too!! (except nostradamus. nobody's quite sure exactly what he/she/it is).

As proof, when was the last time you had any pilot tell you how good his life was? What a great schedule he was getting? How he was thrilled at his hourly pay?

But don't worry, when UAUA/LCC merge, we will surely continue the tradition. And just think how much ammo the eastyz will have when we toss the usapian nobility (and all that DOH crap) out on its collective arse!!!

Yes, pilots are good at complaining, but I can remember the worn out look in his eyes. At the time I was around many PI pilots, and they were a happy bunch, as were the US pilots. I have never had a UA pilot tell me how great it was there. Maybe I just missed the happy week.

 

[767jetz]

Back in 1984... blah blah blah.

Gee, let's see. 1984 was the time just before UA's now legendary strike in 1985. Ya think maybe that was a time when pilots were pissed?

There was a LONG time between 1984 and 2002. (Around the time of the start of the downward spiral of moral.) 18 years to be exact. I assure you that there was a long period of relative peace, and what some would even call prosperity, at UA during those 18 years, relative to the chaos at US Air.

 

[sharktooth]

Although USAPA was elected to reporesent the pilot group, they have no $ nor have a contract which probably 18 to 24 motnhs away to even reach an agreement. What power do they have to even stop any sort of merger?

Does either BOD ever consult with unions when contemplating a merger? Should they?

 

[sharktooth]

What are you talking about? All airlines carry debt. And some actually pay it down from time to time to save interest payments in the future and shore up the balance sheet to make borrowing money easier in the future. It is called a trade off. Use some cash now to pay down debt so we'll be better off tomorrow. Any idea how much in future interest payments UA saved by paying down a quarter BILLION dollars?

and you know for a fact that the debt paydown was optional? That they had a choice, according to you, is interesting. You are involved in those decisions? :unsure:

I mean, you post as though US had no choice to go BK11 (they did) but then, when it is your ox getting gored, you blithely post as if your managements actions were, "optional". Just curious.

 

[sharktooth]

I disagree with much of what you say here. USAir came after Piedmont not because they really wanted to merge with Piedmont, but because Carl Icahn was licking his chops at the thought of buying USAir to merge it with TWA. Colodny wanted no part of his beloved USAir getting eaten by a corporate raider, so he made it his business to make USAir too big to be gobbled up by Icahn.

I had never heard that Icahn had made an offer for USAir. PI and US had talked about merging a year or so earlier then, after US made the initial public offer for PI, the rumor about Icahn making a run on PI caused Colodny to double his offer. At the time Icahn was on the hook to STL for a billion, for pensions? Therefore I never thought his run at PI was credible. Of course Colodny never consulted me...... <_<

Look what Bethune did with the basket case that Continental was. Given a healthy airline like Piedmont to start with, Bethune would have conquered the world (kind of like what Continental accomplished under his leadership.)

I understand that Bethune was quite the socializer but were not most of CALs problems pretty well in hand by the time he came into the picture? Perhaps there were some financial things Bethune was responsible for but I think most of the social aspects of the corporation were in place.

I suspect that Piedmont would have needed a name change to fit a global role, but it would have survived as a stand alone carrier to this day without a doubt had the chairman of Norfolk-Western not been hospitalized and isolated due to a serious heart condition when Colodny attacked.

Actually, I believe that someone on the PI board called Colodny and asked if he was still interested after a little contretemps at a board meeting involving Norfolk pulling some ( or most ) of their investment?

 

[Richard]

Please continue the discussion of a possible merger between UA and US here: http://www.usaviation.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=41333