United Pilots Say US Airways deal potential deal "extremely negative"

[767jetz]

The dealmakers don't care about labor (Pilots you are labor), they care about money to be made.

And they also care about how much money they will lose when the people who actually move the planes from A to B (that would be the pilots) come to work VERY dissatisfied and unmotivated.

 

[767jetz]

LCC has one of the best balance sheets in the industry right now (despite horrible management) and UAL is a mess, even after CH 11.

Where are you getting this stuff. Do you actually read the financial data? Or do you just regurgitate something you heard in a crew room?

Let's try this again...

I see that the misrepresentation of United's financial situation is starting again.

To correct the quoted statement above with some facts, United had a negative cash flow of $80 million during the first quarter of 2008, or a daily burn rate of about $880,000. This was due in part to a debt pre-payment of $250 million during the quarter. Had that debt pre-payment not been made, United would have had a positive cash flow of $170 million during the quarter. And the carrier's unrestricted cash balance was $2.92 billion. When added to its restricted cash of $730 million, United's total cash amounted to $3.65 billion.

In contrast, US Airways reported a first quarter 2008 negative cash flow of $167 million or a daily burn rate of more than $1.8 million, all without any reduction in the carrier's debt level. As a result, US Airways' unrestricted cash total was a little less than $2.4 billion.

While it is certainly clear that neither United nor US Airways gave a stellar financial performance during the first quarter of 2008, I believe that these numbers put a different perspective on which of those two carriers is in a stronger financial position at the moment.

How is a negative cash flow of $167 Million at US without any debt repayment better than UA's $80 Million negative cash flow with $250 Million debt repayment or positive cash flow of $170 Million without the debt repayment???

You do the math. But if it is a race to the bottom, since US is burning more cash and has less cash on hand, guess who ends up in BK first? Need a clue?

So tell me again about LCC's "industry leading" balance sheet again, please.

 

[767jetz]

I think it's interesting that the UAL MEC released no similar statement when their company was in serious talks with CAL.

It's also telling that there's no "Keep Delta My Delta" campaign this time around with NW.

BINGO!

 

[Dog Wonder]

And they also care about how much money they will lose when the people who actually move the planes from A to B (that would be the pilots) come to work VERY dissatisfied and unmotivated.

The money is made up front.

 

[Pi brat]

This is typical east b.s. that gets taken at face value. It's been gone over before here so I won't re-post all the numbers. Suffice to say, if you look at the last year or so of truly separate ops - say 2004 to 2005, US Airways was dead last or near last in every category. America West was in the top third. That's why we were getting fifty bucks every month.

Was it the "east" that ran the mess called res migration last year? Why is your name Pacemaker, are you a retread eastie?

 

[Pi brat]

Finally we agree on something!

So let's start doing everything we can do on each end to kill it before it gets off the ground.

I'll do my part, I want nothing to do with UAL.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Again, airlines do not just sell pieces of their airlines to other airlines.

You mean like Braniff selling their South American routes to Eastern?

 

[nycbusdriver]

I think it's interesting that the UAL MEC released no similar statement when their company was in serious talks with CAL.

It's also telling that there's no "Keep Delta My Delta" campaign this time around with NW.

The Associated Press released this to the wire service yesterday:

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/UNI...EMPLATE=DEFAULT

Looks like something may happen sooner rather than later.

I know they say "third time's a charm," but in this case I think it will be more like "third time's a DISASTER!"

I noted at one point in the article that the AP writer wrote: "The two people familiar with the talks asked not to be named because of the sensitive nature of the discussions." I wonder if one of them is named "Chip?"

 

[Pacemaker]

Well my friend I'm doing a little research and findings are interesting.

I just looked up what was possibly the worst period in US Airways History for Consumer Complaints pre merger. The reporting period that covered the "Christmas Meltdown" US Airways had 509 Complaints, or 1.21 complaints per 100K enplanements. Contrast to HP with 215 or 1.02. This stellar performance landed US at 19 and HP at 17 out of 19.

For an additional view let's go back to full year 2002.

US Airways ranked 4 out of 10, HP came in at 9 of 10. Complaints per 100k enplanements was 1.13 for US & HP at 1.63.

Want to have some real fun look at ALL the DOT stats since the vaunted HP Management took over, BS indeed

America West reeked for a long time. No question. After Doug took over and got things running better, the Consumer Complaints record improved dramatically. During the last year before the merger really took hold, 2005, HP was doing very well. US Airways was a mess. This is the period I was referring to. Check the numbers.

 

[nycbusdriver]

For one, management could have worked out a joint contract prior to Nic. This would have made for tremendous good will. Then when Nic came out, it would have been already to late for the East pilots. (Nic would have gone into effect the second it was issued had there been a joint contract)
But instead management played games for almost two years in order to keep the East under LOA93 as long as possible.
So in managements zeal to hose pilots they created the current mess.

BINGO!

I'll bet Parker cries in his many beers over the fact that this whole pilot merger fiasco would have been over if he and Glass had not jerked around so long with the joint pilot contract negotiations. Granted, the east pilots would have been sorely pissed off, and the bottom half of the east seniority list would have quit in droves, but it certainly would have been over if Parker had made a reasonably lucrative offer that both sides would have ratified.

 

[UPNAWAY]

Piney, dispite your love affair with the East they are a major problem for US Airways and any merger partner. Thier attitudes are a lot like yours, piss poor!

 

[nycbusdriver]

Piney, dispite your love affair with the East they are a major problem for US Airways and any merger partner. Thier attitudes are a lot like yours, piss poor!

Yeah, Piney. How dare a mere customer offer an opinion on airline service.

 

[WhatBag?]

Piney, dispite your love affair with the East they are a major problem for US Airways and any merger partner. Thier attitudes are a lot like yours, piss poor!

Yet your response is as bad and attitude as poor!! I don't think ANY airline that comprises what could possibly be the new UNITED has ANY room to talk about good service. Go to Flyer Talk and see how loyal the former AWA posters are to the "West" and then how much they HATE the East! Then look and see how much the pre merger US Airways posters HATE the new US (really AWA) and miss the original US Airways! There's enough dissatisfaction from both sides.

Here's the thing. I can only speak for the former pre merger US Airways. 90% of our customers biiatched and moaned when we gave them the world and did more than UAL, AMR, DAL, and CAL. They hated us then. They LOATHE us now! What I find amazing is how a group of people (current management) could take an airline with an already terrible reputatiion and make it worst. Sorry UPNAWAY, but those were your folks. They blew it, not the AWA employees, not the old US employees. THAT is what we need to focus on.

Anyone with enough time in this industry KNOWS all the airlines are basically the same. We are an odd, yet colorful lot of men and woman who love what we do despite the BS we have ALL gone through. If any of us can't see that the problem at US Airways lies with the incompetence of our upper management, let me be the first to remind you that this management team could had prevented 100%...YES 100% of the problems and issues here...including the pilot integration, had they gone at this the correct way and with the intentions of actually RUNNING an airline. So stop blaming one another!

Now where's my apron?

 

[UPNAWAY]

It is Airline 101 everyone hates their airline and that is the truth! And all the horror stories could be on any airline, I just don't like the constant and most times pointless bashing!

 

[UPNAWAY]

Piney, I have said all along if we can get East Revs with West productivity we have a winner. I am not bashing the East customer (except you) or the East Revenue, just the attitide of a good portion of the company. I also realise almost all of it has to do with things that happened long before AWA and Tempe, but you and your friends seem to have forgotten that point!