Uneaten food in DFW

[AANOTOK]

No threat here...that IS how it was taken care of THEN. I personally think that would be wrong now, but do not have a problem with "self policing" legally. But agree, those days are gone...I'll leave it up to you and others to try and figure out Overspeed...

 

[bigjets]

Those days are gone.  In fact, even talking about threats against other employees could land you in hot water.  One has to wonder what Overspeed's sudden fascination is - with employee productivity.  As if that would be the reason we are not paid more. 
 
Now Overspeed wants the TWU to make our profession better?  My fellow AMTs, I ask you - who has done more damage to our profession than the TWU?  The TWU put us back to the stone age in pay and benefits in 2003.  No snap backs - what kind of moron (Jim Little) accepts that?  Now, with the current negotiating structure, AA's AMTs are poised to get fleeced again.  What with 6 or 7 FSC local presidents sitting in on AMT negotiations - what could go wrong?  Yeah, just gives us all in the line maintenance side -  the warm fuzzies.

Those days are gone.  In fact, even talking about threats against other employees could land you in hot water.  One has to wonder what Overspeed's sudden fascination is - with employee productivity.  As if that would be the reason we are not paid more. 
 
Now Overspeed wants the TWU to make our profession better?  My fellow AMTs, I ask you - who has done more damage to our profession than the TWU?  The TWU put us back to the stone age in pay and benefits in 2003.  No snap backs - what kind of moron (Jim Little) accepts that?  Now, with the current negotiating structure, AA's AMTs are poised to get fleeced again.  What with 6 or 7 FSC local presidents sitting in on AMT negotiations - what could go wrong?  Yeah, just gives us all in the line maintenance side -  the warm fuzzies.

AA wanted mechs to have 2 years experience before being hired, it was the twu that wanted to do away with that requirement.

 

[Overspeed]

Vortillon,
AA AMTs are not about to get fleeced. If we do as well as the FAs 12% should get us to $40. The on,y thing I see slowing it down is the current I fight within 591, with 591s failed DFR against the Int'l (more dues money wasted by the 591 E Brd), and working through determining whether the Association will represent us or not.

As far as morons go, AMFA set the benchmark for destroying A&P jobs at NWA. Delle is the number one moron.

 

[Overspeed]

Bigjets,
Check out the credentials of many of the 591 E Board. I believe that the current President and one of the VPs was a FSC who got in with only 18 months experience and that was under the TWU junior mechanic program. Now those same guys are the ones who voted to spend 591 funds on a DFR suit that alleged the TWU did too much to save base jobs and are against letting in people with less than 18 months experience.

 

[Overspeed]

AANOTOK,
Agree we need to police our own but the old ways aren't okay anymore. We do need to hold ourselves to some kind of professional standards. We often hold up the pilots s an example of professionalism. I heard they have in the APA a professional standards group that makes sure their members are presenting the proper work ethics and standards.

 

[bigjets]

Yes I agree but that doesn't change twu culpability for lack of representation in or out of bankruptcy. I haven't seen the twu accomplish anything sense the 2001 contract, and that had more to do with just following amfa's lead.

Your opinion right or wrong about 591 eboard has nothing to do with the twu's closing of the locals, grabbing some of my equity stake, negotiating for less equity per mech then what each FA got, the 401k failure compared to other on property unions, forming the association without input from members.

I disagree about Del and AMFA, their contract offer at NWA was a 20% pay cut and laying off 51% of the mechs. So you're thinking that 51% of the mechs should have voted themselves out of job to protect the 49%? Tulsa voted in a contract that screwed everybody but them.

 

[Vortilon]

Vortillon,
AA AMTs are not about to get fleeced. If we do as well as the FAs 12% should get us to $40. The on,y thing I see slowing it down is the current I fight within 591, with 591s failed DFR against the Int'l (more dues money wasted by the 591 E Brd), and working through determining whether the Association will represent us or not.

As far as morons go, AMFA set the benchmark for destroying A&P jobs at NWA. Delle is the number one moron.

 
 
Given the TWUs track record on screwing the line AMTs specifically for the last 12 years, why would any sane AMT put any confidence in the TWU doing right by them?  You know the way it works, the company comes to the TWU and says "here is how much we want to spend", and then the TWU starts the shell game of dividing up the money between the 7 or 8 different employee groups they represent.  Too many hands in the pot.  AMTs have got screwed out of: Two weeks of vacation, 5 holidays, holiday pay at 2 1/2 x pay, double time for extended overtime, shift differential cut to pennies, half pay for calling in sick, sick time accrual - cut from 12 days per year to only 5, no longevity pay, no uniform cleaning, half the uniforms allotted, recently, the TWU managed to let the company take away PV days - using the excuse "no other airline has PV days".  Maybe not "PV Days", but they all have "DAT days" - otherwise known as "day at a time" vacation days.  There are many more TWU give aways - too many to type - point is, time for the TWU to go!  
 
If you are an AMT as claim to be, why does this have to be explained to you?  Good God man, what the hell is it gonna take for you to realise the TWU will never have the best interests of the AMTs as a priority.  It is a communist organization by it's very nature. 

 

[Duke787]

The twu is the only Union foolish enough to have uniforms in the contract, and the only Union foolish enough to not have a CS and jump seat privalidge in contract. Not to mention not being able to get a industry leading TA like the APA and apfa.

In 2003 we gave back half our uniforms because that had a monetary value, that means we rent our uniforms from the company. That was top notch negotiating there. The FAs get 12 points a year from AA to buy clothes from AA, we give AA money to rent our polyester pants and shirts.


TAKE UNIFORMS OUT OF THE CONTRACT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I would rather wear jeans and a sweatshirt; then rent this uniform.

I loved listening to the old time goofs, we got you uniforms, I say the company fooled you into leasing uniforms from AA, who subcontracts that out at a profit.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

Vortillon,
AA AMTs are not about to get fleeced. If we do as well as the FAs 12% should get us to $40. The on,y thing I see slowing it down is the current I fight within 591, with 591s failed DFR against the Int'l (more dues money wasted by the 591 E Brd), and working through determining whether the Association will represent us or not.

As far as morons go, AMFA set the benchmark for destroying A&P jobs at NWA. Delle is the number one moron.

 
O/S
 
If your TWU had a snap back clause at the end of our 2003 contract we would be far ahead of the $40.00 Dollar mark. But Don V. felt it would hurt the company to do that. We got the money we have today from the NWA guys in our 2001 deal. We would of been pumped by AA if not for them. Bobby G. gave away our profit sharing for what? A tiny return of money we gave up in the 2003 concession contract? Why hasn't your TWU put any pressure on AA to give us the Prefund match money which was set aside for us all? What about our stock equity money?
 
I am Not a defender of the TWU in any way I want them all gone in the worst way. But Some of the 591 E-Board will give you information if they are asked, Unlike the dodge that we got from some of the union guys before them.
 
They can be blamed for the continued scamming by union reps throughout the system because guys like you who support the TWU and the AA company butt kissers which have been in power at some stations for many years. You have asked many times why AMFA has not done this or that.  But you should look at what the TWU has Done, ZERO. to better our class and craft. How much did your TWU waste of the union dues that you paid during your TWU's reign? With all the negatives you still can put AMFA down, most of the NWA guys hold their heads high as do the Eastern guys that stood up to the companies.
 
THe TWU has done nothing but roll over.

 

[Overspeed]

AMFAinMIAMI,
Whatever you think AMFA did for the AMT wages has been far outweighed by the fact that only 800 were left (including scabs) when DL bought NWA. All those union dues that were collected from the member's pockets went to get OV a nice fat annuity. Sweet. Not bad after representing the NWA AMTS right out of a job.
 
What's left of the mighty AMFA? A union that has no power at WN and AS. AS has been making record profits. What did AMFA do during the awesome reign at AS? Give up the last overhaul jobs that were at AS in OAK. And WN? Kelley isn't budging for anyone, not AMFA, not SWAPA, and not the TWU. So when all things are equal, AMFA isn't doing anything better than the other unions.
 
The point, AMFA got lucky to walk in at NWA when airlines were going through a record profit cycle.
 
Now about your MIA reps doing a great job? Good for you. The TWU does work well then if the reps do their jobs. Can't say much for the war that is going on here and our reps performance.

 

[Bob Owens]

Bigjets,
Check out the credentials of many of the 591 E Board. I believe that the current President and one of the VPs was a FSC who got in with only 18 months experience and that was under the TWU junior mechanic program. Now those same guys are the ones who voted to spend 591 funds on a DFR suit that alleged the TWU did too much to save base jobs and are against letting in people with less than 18 months experience.

As usual you believe in simply giving the company everything they want.

The company eliminated the Junior Mechanic program, not the Union back in 2001. The union sought to make it a true apprentice program but the company was simply using it as a c-scale. They decided to just eliminate it altogether. We had Junior mechanics who were RII. If they can be RII then they should be paid as mechanics.

The lawsuit was over how the International excluded the line and took more away from the line in favor of Tulsa. Not the bases, just Tulsa. If you recall Tulsa was very much on board with closing AFW and MCI. They did the same thing in 2003 by going after the Holidays, the line lost thousands of dollars more than the base when they knocked it from time and a half on top of the paid holiday to just half time. You say it saved jobs in Tulsa, so what was their response to that? They proposed eliminating the Line Premium and using it to get themselves another day off with pay. We are the only carrier that only gets half pay for working the paid holiday and the only carrier that only gets five. In addition to that we are the only carrier that only gets one week of vacation for the first five years and lag the rest of the industry by a week the next 20 years. The vacation concession allows the company to get the same number of hours worked with over 200 less people-it cuts jobs, but you spin away and defend these concessions because AA management likes it.

 

[TWU informer]

As usual you believe in simply giving the company everything they want.

The company eliminated the Junior Mechanic program, not the Union back in 2001. The union sought to make it a true apprentice program but the company was simply using it as a c-scale. They decided to just eliminate it altogether. We had Junior mechanics who were RII. If they can be RII then they should be paid as mechanics.

The lawsuit was over how the International excluded the line and took more away from the line in favor of Tulsa. Not the bases, just Tulsa. If you recall Tulsa was very much on board with closing AFW and MCI. They did the same thing in 2003 by going after the Holidays, the line lost thousands of dollars more than the base when they knocked it from time and a half on top of the paid holiday to just half time. You say it saved jobs in Tulsa, so what was their response to that? They proposed eliminating the Line Premium and using it to get themselves another day off with pay. We are the only carrier that only gets half pay for working the paid holiday and the only carrier that only gets five. In addition to that we are the only carrier that only gets one week of vacation for the first five years and lag the rest of the industry by a week the next 20 years. The vacation concession allows the company to get the same number of hours worked with over 200 less people-it cuts jobs, but you spin away and defend these concessions because AA management likes it.

Bob,
 
 You mean Local 514 leadership, not Tulsa. When you use "Tulsa" you pigeon hole us all into ignorance and claim we all favored negative outcomes for our coworkers. I've done my part, and just because we have many fearful sheep and company minded union leaders doesn't mean ALL OF TULSA follows that mindset. I am sick of the division that has been created between overhaul vs. line. There appears to be no stopping that now regardless of name of union, or any other antidote, it is here to stay regardless of how wrong it is. You seem to be one of the cheerleaders to keep that dysfunction and division alive and well. Fan the flames all you want, it isn't going to change anything any more or less than you being a union officer has. Tulsa and overhaul isn't your problem. Flawed union leadership, and even flawed union member thinking is your problem.

 

[bigjets]

At this point OH is going no where, now is the time to stop the divisive arguing back and forth. Tulsa screwed us and themselves over the years. Overall they're just not that bright.
 
What was 591 hoping to gain from lawsuit against TWU? 

 

[Kev3188]

... now is the time to stop the divisive arguing back and forth.

Tulsa screwed us and themselves over the years. Overall they're just not that bright.

You know these sentences run counter to each other, right?

 

[bigjets]

You know these sentences run counter to each other, right?

I should have said they have been hit hard by past contracts as well. The thing is, I'm a guy on the internet, bob is a union official who should be working for the best contract for all of us. Not for just line mechs or trying to make some point that is a stance against corporations on the planet Zorf while he's fighting evil corporate CEOs from his mighty unicorn steed Ulysses.


Who knows what's going on his mind, thinking a contract is bad because in 2 years delta FAs might get raise making them the highest paid. That works for all of us, they get a raise we get a raise and so on. Better then bobs way of get an average, then wait 5 years, or vote down this pay raise so all the other airlines will say look at AA. Bobs thought process is damaging to the whole industry. But he speaks real nice and says what people want to hear, so he gets elected to his twu post making extra money, while everybody else just gets the one pay check.