TWU one line local for maint.

[Bob Owens]

For your theory to work, too many stars have to align. The Baker letter change was on all TWU term sheets. Understand that the Line Presidents didn't want the letter.

Not quite, the line Presidents were agreeable to give up the Baker Letter in exchange for either keeping something else for the members, like the week of vacation or perhaps adding a Taxi premium. Stores got the week back, Maint didn't because the company refused to negotiate with the line. So the company took both, or should I say you gave them both? the fact is we knew we could survive without the Baker letter by making changes on our own. The IEC, which has only ex presidents decided to make that decision for us, and our members.

Now he's back he wanted to create a local that one person could control the contract. He stated in his 8/17 letter that one local was one of the ways discussed to resolve the problems he felt were caused by multiple locals.

And how would the new stucture fix that? It would add three Fleet service Locals and take out four maint locals?

So let's put the facts together, he flies off the handle and sends out a verbally abusive email after the APA's first abrogation hearing, Little publicly chews his ass, and Bob comes out with a "change from within" letter 8/17 so he won't get booted.

Jim never spoke to me , nor did he Email me in reagrds to the Email I sent out. If profanity was against the rules then Gillespie would be gone, he uses it all the time, mostly directed toward people from Aircraft Maintenance.

Bob writes about new local structure plans (he must have either known about the coming change or he had already discussed it with Little) in his "change from within" letter (apology to Little) and now he is screaming again because he must have screwed up his deal with Little with his email tirade. Bob and his mouth screwing up the deals, go figure.

Yes I had discussed it on numerous occasions with Jim Little, and at several "strategy sessions" held by the TWU and Mark Richard, and I pointed out how the SWA model worked and ours didn't and why and how to fix it. What they presented to us, without us even having the option to vote on it is not a structure similar to SWA, is a gerrymandered version of what we have now, designed to silence Line maintenance.

He said it was discussed openly in his 8/17 letter. So it wasn't a secret and he and others provided the idea in the first place.

Actually Gilboy and Luis were discussing it as well, at least as far back as 2009, IIRC they didnt want Title II and it was one maint local, not just the line, funny those two Ex Presidents are two out of the three ex maint reps on the IEC, there are no current Maint reps on the IEC. This plan was put together for Line AMTs, Stores and Title II without any say whatsover from any of those groups. Is that democratic?

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob says in his 8/17 letter that locals being restructured was already discussed. He knew it was coming or why else would he talk about it?

Anything I discussed would have gone to a membership vote. Funny how your tune has changed, the membership should be given the right to vote on any crap offer the company makes but they should not be given the right to vote on merging their locals or being moved into a Local where the majority of the members are in a different class and craft and contract?? Come on OS, you made a powergrab and its blowing up in your face.

So what happened to the restructuring of Fleet?

 

[unionguy1]

Overspeed

Just because I work at a line station and want to rid AA of the TWU doesn't mean that I agree with Bob and his way of thinking. He has been out there as they say as of late. Being under one local at the line stations for me is a mistake. It may work at UPS or even for the IBT. Too many deals and scams here at AA for it to work. The I got Mine way of thinking will make it hard to manage and keep it fair for all. Putting stores with us and the Facilities/automotive with the ramp is the TWU's way of seperation. The RLA puts them with us.(AMT's) I don't know who Bob openly talk about this with since it seems to be a surprise to us here in Miami.

There are some AMFA supporters here I align myself with and others have opinions that I differ from. I guess its a generation thing. AA is the 5th carrier Ive worked for. All the others are Gone. So I have seen all the bs the industry has delt in the last 30+ yrs. Not sure what station your at or what you do here at AA. But the TWU has always been a company union. They have found way to support AA rather than the AMT's even long before I hired on here. So before you ask then why did I come here, AA was the biggest and I thought that AA would not end up in BK.

AA is going to do what ever it takes to shed the O/H facilities since all of the others have done so. It may not be next yr but thats the plan don't be fooled. Its the industries way NOW. Delta is even going to open a maintenanace facility in Mexico.

So do I believe we at AA need a Union that will look out for the AMT's best interest now and in the yrs to come after both you and I are Gone. "YES"

AMFA is the one I think will do that. You may have a different opinon and thats ok.
I would like it to come to a vote, and let the membership pick the Union they want.
UAL has done it several times and may do it again once the intergration is complete.

Time will tell, the Teamsters have lied to them and they are even looking at either the IAM again or back to AMFA. Can't get a straight answer since seniority intergration is upmost on the minds of the AMTs now.

So don't put all the AMFA supporters in the same catagory.

Sign a AMFA card lets take it to a vote, just like the yes/no voters you will have your choice. Lets be fair to all the AMT's at AA.

I agree. This is my 2nd airline. 34 years with the airlines. 13 with EAL and the rest with AA. ATL, MCI, MIA, AFW and who knows where next. Honored the picket line with pride and kept that line strong until the scabs pushed their tool boxes across 36th street and the picket was no longer necessary. My belief is that the TWU would not honor their own picket line if there ever was to be a strike. Hopefully there never will be. Its difficult to cut friends from your life once they become scabs but it is a tie that must be cut.This is the time and I think the appropriate time to replace the TWU. My choice will be AMFA. If it comes to a vote my vote will be for AMFA. We have a few good leaders with the TWU. But most use the TWU as a stairway into management. Joe Angelini, Tony Acosta, James Klopp, Rusty Pruitt just a few that used their TWU positions to secure a management position. We have strong leaders like Larry Pike and Bob Owens that work diligently for their membership. They may make mistakes and we may disagree with them at times but at least their priorities are for their members. It is the right time to replace the TWU so get out there and sign a card supporting AMFA.

 

[AC Tynker]

Wrong, what the IEC did was make things worse, not better. Look at SWA, do they have Fleet service clerks sitting in voting on the Flight Attendants contract and vica versa? No. What the IEC did was actually add three more Fleet service clerks to M&R negotiations and remove Four M&R guys from the Presidents council. This council votes on things such as LOA's that remove the experience requirement for Line Maint. Do you think its right that mechanics are outnumbered when they vote on changes to the mechanics contract? Thats the problem with our structure, its convoluted to make sure that Line mechanics especially have no real say in what happens to mechanics. Title II was told where they were going to new locals, they werent even given the option, I suggested that they go to a system wide vote, they either vote to go with the AMTs in AMT locals or they go to the Fleet locals and we go for seperate books. The move was a deliberate calculated attempt to further strip mechanics of power over their own futures.

My opinion is, subject to a vote, that everyone in our contract should be in our Local, just like SWA, just like Dispatch, just like nearly all the other Locals in the TWU. To be clear, I do not want a vote on the Fleet Contract and I dont want anybody that doesnt have to live under our deal voting on ours. Is that unreasonable? that doesnt mean that I wont support them, it just means that I want us to have just as much say over our contracts as they have over theirs. It seems that as far as the IEC is concerned the only way mechanics can get that is to leave the TWU.

We bring in more than enough to cover my pay and I wont have a problem handling working the floor and my duties as president. Maint doesnt generate the amount of grievances that other groups do, plenty of smaller Locals in the TWU survive under similar circumstances.

Just out of curiosity, don't you think if you had actually went to your Presidents Council meeting that is going on right now you could have voiced your concerns and offered input there instead of on a forum that isn't live fed into the meeting. Maybe you had pressing business that you stayed home for, not sure of the details just know you are absentee. "If"! you just chose not to go because your mad and experiencing a little tantrum maybe it was best that people that keep on keeping on even when the going gets rough will be given the chance to lead and be the voice to the ATD.

Maybe you can go to the swearing in of the new Line President atleast and have a bestowing ceremony so you can make sure your coined phrase lives on. I Ex Legend President, Bob "The 20 Thousand Dollar 8Ball Flop Man" Owens Bestow to you my semi altered coined phrase, Cornerstone City.

Just think of it this way Bob, this will give you a chance to come out of the closet so to speak and you will be able to Openly show your support for "AMFA err AMP err AMFA err AMP err IBT errrrrr AMFA err No Union err Shake me again Chuck I need a new answer!"

Keep up the good work

 

[Bob Owens]

Just out of curiosity, don't you think if you had actually went to your Presidents Council meeting that is going on right now you could have voiced your concerns and offered input there instead of on a forum that isn't live fed into the meeting. Maybe you had pressing business that you stayed home for, not sure of the details just know you are absentee. "If"! you just chose not to go because your mad and experiencing a little tantrum maybe it was best that people that keep on keeping on even when the going gets rough will be given the chance to lead and be the voice to the ATD.



Just think of it this way Bob, this will give you a chance to come out of the closet so to speak and you will be able to Openly show your support for "AMFA err AMP err AMFA err AMP err IBT errrrrr AMFA err No Union err Shake me again Chuck I need a new answer!"

Keep up the good work

How would you know whether or not I was there? The fact is the decision has already been made, yes we can give input but its after the fact. I chose not to go because I had other things to do, like spend time with my members in PHL and EWR and Dentist appointments. Presidents Council meetings are rarely productive, they are essentailly Fleet Service Meetings. With the changes there really wont be any point in going, one guy from Tulsa and one guy from the line and 11 FSCs. Some are good guys but its still not a level playing field. This new mandate is the type of results we can expect. The International will continue to make motions on LOAs that give the company whatever they want from Maintenance and it will pass in the council.



At least you finally admit that we are the voice of the members to the ATD and the ATD is not the voice of the members.

Again, this is almost funny, we have someone hiding behind an alias making accusations upon the motives of others. I can understand people who criticize the company, or the Union, of going under an alias, but what would someone like you have to fear from either of them? Nothing, because you are a suck up, and you probaly do not want your peers to know. You are a coward.

 

[1AA]

So AC Tynker are you saying that you are in favor of this realignment that shuts out the line stations and gives more power to the Fleet Service run local in Tulsa?

 

[Bob Owens]

Of course he is, he doesnt have to live under the terms of this deal or the next.

This deal gives more power to the Fleet Service Loacls on the line as well.

Sometimes I think the ATD hates mechanics, its not enough that they refused to ask for a release after the membership rejected the TA and instead drug out negotiations until the company filed for BK, its not enough that they did everything they could to lock us into bottom of the industry in hourly pay, in benifits, in vacation, in holidays in sick time and in work rules but now they take away their right to have have jsy mechanics at the mechanics negotiations and allows 11 FSC Presidents to decide who sits and speaks for mechanics.

Is it really so wrong for mechanics to have the same control over what they get to vote on that Fleet and other groups in the TWU have?

 

[NYer]

Wrong, what the IEC did was make things worse, not better. Look at SWA, do they have Fleet service clerks sitting in voting on the Flight Attendants contract and vica versa? No. What the IEC did was actually add three more Fleet service clerks to M&R negotiations and remove Four M&R guys from the Presidents council. This council votes on things such as LOA's that remove the experience requirement for Line Maint. Do you think its right that mechanics are outnumbered when they vote on changes to the mechanics contract? Thats the problem with our structure, its convoluted to make sure that Line mechanics especially have no real say in what happens to mechanics. Title II was told where they were going to new locals, they werent even given the option, I suggested that they go to a system wide vote, they either vote to go with the AMTs in AMT locals or they go to the Fleet locals and we go for seperate books. The move was a deliberate calculated attempt to further strip mechanics of power over their own futures.

My opinion is, subject to a vote, that everyone in our contract should be in our Local, just like SWA, just like Dispatch, just like nearly all the other Locals in the TWU. To be clear, I do not want a vote on the Fleet Contract and I dont want anybody that doesnt have to live under our deal voting on ours. Is that unreasonable? that doesnt mean that I wont support them, it just means that I want us to have just as much say over our contracts as they have over theirs. It seems that as far as the IEC is concerned the only way mechanics can get that is to leave the TWU.

We bring in more than enough to cover my pay and I wont have a problem handling working the floor and my duties as president. Maint doesnt generate the amount of grievances that other groups do, plenty of smaller Locals in the TWU survive under similar circumstances.

If there is a maintenance local where all the line a/c maintenance guys reside, how does a Fleet local dictate what happens in that local in within negotiations. Maybe for Title II, since they will represent them now, but how does that translate for a/c maint...

 

[AC Tynker]

How would you know whether or not I was there? The fact is the decision has already been made, yes we can give input but its after the fact. I chose not to go because I had other things to do, like spend time with my members in PHL and EWR and Dentist appointments. Presidents Council meetings are rarely productive, they are essentailly Fleet Service Meetings. With the changes there really wont be any point in going, one guy from Tulsa and one guy from the line and 11 FSCs. Some are good guys but its still not a level playing field. This new mandate is the type of results we can expect. The International will continue to make motions on LOAs that give the company whatever they want from Maintenance and it will pass in the council.



At least you finally admit that we are the voice of the members to the ATD and the ATD is not the voice of the members.

Again, this is almost funny, we have someone hiding behind an alias making accusations upon the motives of others. I can understand people who criticize the company, or the Union, of going under an alias, but what would someone like you have to fear from either of them? Nothing, because you are a suck up, and you probaly do not want your peers to know. You are a coward.

Case in point you didn't show up to what was probably a very important meeting and it seems to not be the first, so who's the coward ? I finally admit? I never denied anything about who was the voice. It doesn't take a rocket scientist Bob.

 

[AC Tynker]

So AC Tynker are you saying that you are in favor of this realignment that shuts out the line stations and gives more power to the Fleet Service run local in Tulsa?

Not sure where you read I was in favor of anything. I'm just making sure Bob doesn't forget what he pushed for and now he is griping.

 

[AC Tynker]

Of course he is, he doesnt have to live under the terms of this deal or the next.

This deal gives more power to the Fleet Service Loacls on the line as well.

Sometimes I think the ATD hates mechanics, its not enough that they refused to ask for a release after the membership rejected the TA and instead drug out negotiations until the company filed for BK, its not enough that they did everything they could to lock us into bottom of the industry in hourly pay, in benifits, in vacation, in holidays in sick time and in work rules but now they take away their right to have have jsy mechanics at the mechanics negotiations and allows 11 FSC Presidents to decide who sits and speaks for mechanics.

Is it really so wrong for mechanics to have the same control over what they get to vote on that Fleet and other groups in the TWU have?

I wish you were right but unfortunately I get to live with what you negotiated, my .81 cent raise.

 

[Rogallo]

You TWU suckups crack me up.

jmho.

 

[Rogallo]

I wish you were right but unfortunately I get to live with what you negotiated, my .81 cent raise.

Of course, Bob did it!!

 

[AC Tynker]

Of course, Bob did it!!

Oh maybe I have it all wrong. Was it you ?

 

[1AA]

I wish you were right but unfortunately I get to live with what you negotiated, my .81 cent raise.

Nice spin Dr. know it all. You know damm well the line presidents voted AGAINST bringing back the LBO that AA said take this or leave it. The cards were stacked up against the line presidents. Little brought in his ringers to offset the line maintenance vote. Guys that never show up unless Little and company need something to pass against the memberships wishes. You are pathetic! Shame on you for pulling that crap after you know what really happened during the vote. Now the TWU put the final nail in the cone of silence for the line stations with this realignment.