TWU one line local for maint.

[AC Tynker]

A/C Tinker

There are a few AMFA supporters in some line stations in office and they are there because they have over the yrs attempted to correct the bs that went on in the locals before.
There are are others like myself who would not take a TWU position NO MATTER HOW MUCH $$$. Its all about being true to what you believe in. I am a union guy and have helped many over the yrs with ways in which to combat the bs from the company. I speek my mind and have voiced my distrust with the TWU leaders as well as the management of AA. ITS NOT ABOUT THE $$$$ if it was there would be a list of guys on the ballots for the officer positions. But since the UNION Rules provide for compensation for the time they spend doing the job they do, BE Honest YOU would Take the $$$ as well. That amout is not picked by them it is set by the number of members they have in the Local. So that means your BOY wonder Hewitt is about to get a big raise in Tul. since they are planning on adding AFW and DFW to the Tul local. DO you think he deserves that big of a raise. Think about that?

How would I feel if some one who was an AMFA supporter switched and went to IBT? I would ask him/her why?I would not like it either.. But it all comes down to their choice. What each of us feels is the best choice for our craft? So just as I respect the fact that your a TWU supporter, what the line guys do or say should not matter to you.


You will not get involved for what ever reason but you attack the job they do and how they do it until you can step into their shoes and fight with the Intl and the company I suggest that you support the TWU and be less critical of the guys who are attempting to bring a better way of life at work for You and all AMT's.

In my opinion Hewitt did the best he could with the situation at hand. I've known him for a while and know that every decision he made he felt was in the memberships best interest that is why he was voted in to do the job and not every one was easy. I'm not sure why you make negative reference to Hewitt but just as your AMFA buddies accept the money for the TWU job that they do Hewitt will get a raise as you say and I'm not sure why that would be a bad thing on his part when he had no influence as to the reasoning for it contrary to popular belief.

I didn't say an "AMFA Supporter" pushing the IBT, evidently you misunderstood. I typed an "Elected AMFA Officer" pushing the IBT while in office on AMFAs dime. In my opinion I think no matter what Union someone is an officer down to a steward in, poshing another Union while serving allegiance to another is pretty pathetic and low down. More people should share the same loyalty as you and stay true as you typed.

I respect what line guys and overhaul guys say and think for the most part. I have very good friends at the base and on the line and some support IBT and some support AMFA. I respect their choice 100% and not once have they acted or talked like the supporters on here that I have had the pleasure of conversing with and I agree that not everyone on here that supports AMFA is like that. Odie for one I have respect for.

As for the line presidents, I know you said that you take Bob with a grain of salt. The Hewitt International part time VP nomination document that mysteriously made it's way to the net had innocent Bob elbow deep in that fiasco even though he plays dumb. Trying to make a big deal out of a nomination that just about every local TWU wide not just the ATD put someone in for the part time meet every quarter slot that local 100 lost because of somekind of technicality. It's actions such as that is why I consider him a slimy P.O.S. that comes up with numerous secret agendas. Things like that is why he gets my attention.

 

[AC Tynker]

Just as a matter of fact, and to comfirm that you really are something more than a chronic complainer, tell us all how many union meetings in the last 12 months you have attended and what exactly was capacity of your "volunteer as needed" in the 12 months?

In other words be more specific about what you really do regarding your current union?

I think you have enough of your own problems to worry about than to worry about me Simpleton

 

[TWU informer]

I think you have enough of your own problems to worry about than to worry about me Simpleton

Cannot answer the question?

How about this one.
How many user names do you have on here?

And this one.
How is the Bee-Hive?

 

[Overspeed]

Didnt address what was said, how many airlines dissapeared during the first 34 years?

The ATA is an Industry Lobbying Group. No suprise that a management friendly guy like you would take their word as Gospell. Look at each year since 1938, you will see that prior to deregulation they showed small losses and small profits, whereas after deregulation they would show large losses and large profits, the swings were more extreme, the difference between the peaks and valleys provides the opportunity to make a lot of money for investors (and crush unions in negotiations if they fall for all the BS). You must also keep in mind the favorable tax and accounting laws that allow corporations, as a means of avoiding having to pay their fair share of taxes, are able to claim losses on intangibles.Do you really believe that if this idustry truly lost $1.4 billion in real money that it would exist as a private industry?


747, there you go again, saying I said something I didnt, you either cant read or are using your typical FOX NEWS approach to the discussion. I said that the 747 did more to lower airfares than deregulation.


RPMs. OK, how much did it decline from 1938 till 1978 and how much did it decline from 1978 till today? The figures you cited included at least four years of Regulation (1974 till 1978)

From "Turbulent skies" pg 71 (In 1936) The Round-Trip fare to Manila was $1438.20, a years wage for a working man".

Same book page 72. "Between 1929 and 1939 , the cost per passenger mile fell from 12 cents to 5.1 cents."

Both of those quoted stats are prior to Deregulation. The drop betweeen 1929 and 1939 was more than double the overlapping, longer period you cited. True the CAB wasnt established till 1938 but there was that "issue" that got American Airlines to become American Airlines.

Another difference between today and 1974 is that you may be able to find a seat for $268, or you may pay $1442 (for a middle seat) and and find you are sitting next to a guy who paid $268.

Now for a figure thats really of importance to us, in real terms(Inflation adjusted) how much have our wages gone down, including benefits since 1978?

My guess is roughly 50%, thanks to people like you.

If your asking how many airlines disappeared when they were struggling to fly mail and pax with mostly fabric covered airplanes then that number would be a lot. No comparison since first airplane that anyone could make money with was the DC3 which started flying in 1936. comparing prior to 1934 is a red herring Bob and you know it.

And the swings down outweigh the swings up. As a group they have all lost money except for WN. You know that as well. The point is to have a company that ends up on the upside consistently. If you are playing the swings to make money then you shouldn't work for one, you should play the market. As you note the swings were small prior to 1978.

Okay, same thing. The 737 and A320 lowered fares more than any other aircraft, not the 747.

RPMs went up consistently YOY however there is a huge spike up since deregulation.

US Supreme Court Justice Stephen Breyer helped write the law with Ted Kennedy. If he says it lower air fares, it lowered air fares. You want to go to SCOTUS and fight for the right to strike and you are already arguing with a sitting justice. Nice Bob.

Re-read the quote, it says inflation adjusted. Fare variance is driven by yield management and when you buy the ticket. 1929 to 1939? You are quoting the Great Depression as an area to benchmark from? With no adjustment for extreme economic stress? Who had money to fly then? Weren't most people hopping trains or riding the Model A west? Your ridiculous.

 

[AC Tynker]

Cannot answer the question?

How about this one.
How many user names do you have on here?

And this one.
How is the Bee-Hive?

This is the only one Simpleton

I don't kick them and I am an AandP not a Machinist

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

In my opinion Hewitt did the best he could with the situation at hand. I've known him for a while and know that every decision he made he felt was in the memberships best interest that is why he was voted in to do the job and not every one was easy. I'm not sure why you make negative reference to Hewitt but just as your AMFA buddies accept the money for the TWU job that they do Hewitt will get a raise as you say and I'm not sure why that would be a bad thing on his part when he had no influence as to the reasoning for it contrary to popular belief.

I didn't say an "AMFA Supporter" pushing the IBT, evidently you misunderstood. I typed an "Elected AMFA Officer" pushing the IBT while in office on AMFAs dime. In my opinion I think no matter what Union someone is an officer down to a steward in, poshing another Union while serving allegiance to another is pretty pathetic and low down. More people should share the same loyalty as you and stay true as you typed.

I respect what line guys and overhaul guys say and think for the most part. I have very good friends at the base and on the line and some support IBT and some support AMFA. I respect their choice 100% and not once have they acted or talked like the supporters on here that I have had the pleasure of conversing with and I agree that not everyone on here that supports AMFA is like that. Odie for one I have respect for.

As for the line presidents, I know you said that you take Bob with a grain of salt. The Hewitt International part time VP nomination document that mysteriously made it's way to the net had innocent Bob elbow deep in that fiasco even though he plays dumb. Trying to make a big deal out of a nomination that just about every local TWU wide not just the ATD put someone in for the part time meet every quarter slot that local 100 lost because of somekind of technicality. It's actions such as that is why I consider him a slimy P.O.S. that comes up with numerous secret agendas. Things like that is why he gets my attention.

A/C Tinker

From what I have heard and read anyone who gets a nomination for the TWU Intl. should be better informed as to what is going on. To have to come out after the fact and think he was mislead and did not know thats why my boy wonder comment. If you also believe that he got that on merit and not for pushing the "YES" vote and taking the TWU's stance you are blind as to what has been going on within the TWU for yrs.
If I am not mistaken Loacl 100 is a NY Bus/train drivers local, just what does that have to do with the ATD? Its a carrot to keep Hewitt in line with the TWU at TUL. Just like any good politician would do for a friend or someone who has influence in a certain area. He would then NOT have to live under the 6 yrs screw job the rest of us now do.

As far as TWU officers pushing for AMFA, is that right? Shouldn't be, but when the TWU Intl. takes concessions after concessions from the company and has shown "NO" fight what so ever when it really counted, each memeber has the right to stand for what they believe and try to effect change. If the only choice after attempting to change from within ( since that is why some AMFA guys got involved ) with the TWU failed then pushing AMFA as a TWU officer I don't have a problem with.. To help the class and craft they have worked in all thier lives get better since they have to work under the contracts. The Intl doesn't, they get all thier $$$ Holidays,vacations,sicktime,pension, all of it they don't get a reduction in life as we do. IF THEY DID, things would be different.

 

[AC Tynker]

A/C Tinker

From what I have heard and read anyone who gets a nomination for the TWU Intl. should be better informed as to what is going on. To have to come out after the fact and think he was mislead and did not know thats why my boy wonder comment. If you also believe that he got that on merit and not for pushing the "YES" vote and taking the TWU's stance you are blind as to what has been going on within the TWU for yrs.
If I am not mistaken Loacl 100 is a NY Bus/train drivers local, just what does that have to do with the ATD? Its a carrot to keep Hewitt in line with the TWU at TUL. Just like any good politician would do for a friend or someone who has influence in a certain area. He would then NOT have to live under the 6 yrs screw job the rest of us now do.

As far as TWU officers pushing for AMFA, is that right? Shouldn't be, but when the TWU Intl. takes concessions after concessions from the company and has shown "NO" fight what so ever when it really counted, each memeber has the right to stand for what they believe and try to effect change. If the only choice after attempting to change from within ( since that is why some AMFA guys got involved ) with the TWU failed then pushing AMFA as a TWU officer I don't have a problem with.. To help the class and craft they have worked in all thier lives get better since they have to work under the contracts. The Intl doesn't, they get all thier $$$ Holidays,vacations,sicktime,pension, all of it they don't get a reduction in life as we do. IF THEY DID, things would be different.

First off I need to correct myself. The slot Hewitt was nominated for was Int Executive Board not VP sorry.

I think you are misinformed completely about the Intl Executive Board story. Please don't take that as a dig because that is not my intent. The position that he was nominated for is NOT a working full time position with benefits and high pay it is a meet once a quarter or once a year for a meeting in which you get travel expenses and that is your big compensation and benefit package that you receive. They Totally live under the same contract that we do such as Insurance, Holidays, Vacation, Sicktime etc etc. He didn't get enough votes from the delegates which is how one obtains the slot after being nominated. The people that were voted in came from Local 100 after all. If that was a reward for pushing a Yes Vote by getting nominated Locally and losing the election then I think they need to rethink the reward system and even if he would have won there was nothing to brag about besides sitting in a meeting once a year and staying in a hotel.

As for the AMFA and IBT supporters that are elected officials in the TWU, I guess we can agree to disagree because I don't think I can change your mind on that and you can't change mine. I understand where you are coming from on that subject 100% though I disagree and I hope that you understand my stance though you disagree.

 

[Bob Owens]

If your asking how many airlines disappeared when they were struggling to fly mail and pax with mostly fabric covered airplanes then that number would be a lot. No comparison since first airplane that anyone could make money with was the DC3 which started flying in 1936. comparing prior to 1934 is a red herring Bob and you know it.

Not true, the airlines were subsidized by the government through the USPS.

And the swings down outweigh the swings up. As a group they have all lost money except for WN.

Of course they do, like in most businesses, thanks to the fact that they can claim losses on "intangibles", things such as "Goodwill" , AA wrote off nearly $1 billion of that prior to our 2003 concessions.

The 737 and A320 lowered fares more than any other aircraft, not the 747.

If you say so. Still supports what I said as far as the 747 lowering the cost to fly than Deregulation. The fact is that since the early days under the CAB airfares declined.

 

[Bob Owens]

First off I need to correct myself. The slot Hewitt was nominated for was Int Executive Board not VP sorry

Wasnt Hewitt against the 2010 agreement? Maybe Overspeed can answer that for ya.

So Hewitt was against that contract but in favor of what we have now but according to Overspeed its " Owens, Peterson (who didnt get into office till 2011, a year after the fact), & Ruiz's fault that we still arent making $38/hr yet, and will be at the bottom of the industry till at least 2018". Hmm. Strange logic MR OS has isnt it? Mr Hewitt gets a pass even though he was against what was a better deal and campained to put this crappy deal in place but according to OS its the fault of the guys who continued to say vote NO.

 

[High Speed Steel]

Wasnt Hewitt against the 2010 agreement? Maybe Overspeed can answer that for ya.

So Hewitt was against that contract but in favor of what we have now but according to Overspeed its " Owens, Peterson (who didnt get into office till 2011, a year after the fact), & Ruiz's fault that we still arent making $38/hr yet, and will be at the bottom of the industry till at least 2018". Hmm. Strange logic MR OS has isnt it? Mr Hewitt gets a pass even though he was against what was a better deal and campained to put this crappy deal in place but according to OS its the fault of the guys who continued to say vote NO.

Hewitt was against the 2010 but unlike you didn't campaign for it's rejection. He instead honored the opinions of the membership and allowed them to make their choice. I think at the time he believed some improvements could have been made to that 2010 TA that the committee tried to make happen. As the negotiation began in December 2010 soon after many articles were left TA'd, then around March of 2011 I believe the committee went all in with the remaining articles. Late into the summer of 2011 the company began to move on articles of the agreement and reach TA's leaving only about 10 articles open to discussion. That is when you came into the picture stonewalling and requesting release from the mediated talks. I think a TA could have been reached by late summer or early fall but you again failed the Line AMT by denying them a $2.00 an hour raise in line premium. I still say had something been accomplished with the 2010 TA we would have received all monies associated with that TA since the company requested to remain status quo on pay and bennies while going through bankruptcy. You blew it Bob, nice job....

 

[AC Tynker]

Wasnt Hewitt against the 2010 agreement? Maybe Overspeed can answer that for ya.

So Hewitt was against that contract but in favor of what we have now but according to Overspeed its " Owens, Peterson (who didnt get into office till 2011, a year after the fact), & Ruiz's fault that we still arent making $38/hr yet, and will be at the bottom of the industry till at least 2018". Hmm. Strange logic MR OS has isnt it? Mr Hewitt gets a pass even though he was against what was a better deal and campained to put this crappy deal in place but according to OS its the fault of the guys who continued to say vote NO.

I would trust Overspeed or High Speed Steel before I would teeter on your say.

 

[High Speed Steel]

I see I hit a new mile marker -400....lmao

 

[1AA]

I see I hit a new mile marker -400....lmao

401 and counting. LOL

 

[Lloyd Grey]

TWU has about 7 months left to fleece mechanics at AA. That's my prediction.

 

[Overspeed]

Wasnt Hewitt against the 2010 agreement? Maybe Overspeed can answer that for ya.

So Hewitt was against that contract but in favor of what we have now but according to Overspeed its " Owens, Peterson (who didnt get into office till 2011, a year after the fact), & Ruiz's fault that we still arent making $38/hr yet, and will be at the bottom of the industry till at least 2018". Hmm. Strange logic MR OS has isnt it? Mr Hewitt gets a pass even though he was against what was a better deal and campained to put this crappy deal in place but according to OS its the fault of the guys who continued to say vote NO.

I have no idea about Hewitt's position during the May 2010 TA. Never spoke to him.

Who made the vote no video? You. Who stamped vote no on contract books? Pike? Who went all over the system to spread lies about the TA you and Gukelberger with your gang of puppets Schiable, MacTiernan, Ruiz, Houseman, etc...

Peterson was busy trying and getting rejected for management jobs at AA. When he realized he wasn't even good enough for AA management he ran and won with like 200 votes out of 1,000 possible. He is responsible for all his lies since he was in office.

Ruiz position I was told was that he was promising a "snap back plus" plan that would get big raises for the line with stagnant wages for the base. That'll pass...NOT!

So is it yours, Ruiz, Peterson, Zimmerman, Pike, Schiable, and MacTiernan's fault wholly? No. But your guys lies certainly tipped enough in favor waiting for the big pay day that never came. Sure blame me and others who voted yes. The fact remains that you were wrong and you are still wrong. You blame the TWU, the courts, the lawyers, the consultants, the banks, Wall Street, and everyone else but it's not you...no, couldn't be that maybe everyone else is right and your wrong.

50 days an counting until you unblock a lav Bob. The brown trout are biting...